North Korea v America

[mashman]

(In best Bruce Forsyth voice) And what does war make... MONEY!

[Oakie]

Well with the NKs threatening nations to the south and east, I won't actually be surprised if the Chinese in their north-west give them a surprise spanking somehow. They are their erstwhile allies but are an inscrutable and pragmatic bunch.
They would probably rather do that than risk an exchange between Nk and USA which could affect them. Look for a surgical strike on the important bits and then a million Chinese storming accross the border to 'restore order'. They would stop at the 45th parallel.

[mashman]

Well with the NKs threatening nations to the south and east, I won't actually be surprised if the Chinese in their north-west give them a surprise spanking somehow. They are their erstwhile allies but are an inscrutable and pragmatic bunch.
They would probably rather do that than risk an exchange between Nk and USA which could affect them. Look for a surgical strike on the important bits and then a million Chinese storming accross the border to 'restore order'. They would stop at the 45th parallel.

... and maybe the Japanese will take South Korea whilst they're defending their border again the North Koreans. Praps the Nepalese, Bhukanese, Vietnamese and all of the other ese's will join in against the Chinese and we'll have a fuck load of fun. Or not.

[Oakie]

... and maybe the Japanese will take South Korea whilst they're defending their border again the North Koreans. Praps the Nepalese, Bhukanese, Vietnamese and all of the other ese's will join in against the Chinese and we'll have a fuck load of fun. Or not.

Nah. No need once the Chinese make their move. Remember ... you heard it here first.

Actually it sounds a bit like a Tom Clancy novel if you throw in the USA cooperating by parking a sub in the Sea of Japan to do the surgical strike with their cruise missiles because Congress in secret decide they'd rather have China occupying that piece of land than the North Koreans because they are so flakey. China happy because it's good PR for them and the new provence gives them easier access to the lower Pacific where they continue to court the islands of the South Pacific for their deep sea minerals. Dammit ... might even write the book myself!

[Jantar]

....Jantar, you may well remember Muldoon's use of the National Development Act 1979 to seize land in the Cromwell Gorge to build the Clyde Dam.

I certainly do. It was seized by the Crown under the public works act of the day. Ownership was then vested in the Crown, and nominally that is the Monarch, but in fact is Parliament. However it was later sold to Contact energy, and it wasn't sold by the Monarch, but by the Minister of lands and the Minister of SOEs. The Governor General, who is the Monarch's representitive didn't even factor in the sale.

[nudemetalz]

Want a laugh....

Check this out


Go to 1:49, most of the guns (including front ones) are toys and don't even fire....cool propaganda, NK peoples...

Hmm,...I reckon a couple of A-10s would take out these 1950's trench warfare imperialists and problem solved.

[Akzle]

I certainly do. It was seized by the Crown under the public works act of the day. Ownership was then vested in the Crown, and nominally that is the Monarch, but in fact is Parliament. However it was later sold to Contact energy, and it wasn't sold by the Monarch, but by the Minister of lands and the Minister of SOEs. The Governor General, who is the Monarch's representitive didn't even factor in the sale.

i'll give you an hint, since you seem determined not to look it up.

"The Crown in right on New Zealand" is a company registered in the US.

[mashman]

Nah. No need once the Chinese make their move. Remember ... you heard it here first.

Actually it sounds a bit like a Tom Clancy novel if you throw in the USA cooperating by parking a sub in the Sea of Japan to do the surgical strike with their cruise missiles because Congress in secret decide they'd rather have China occupying that piece of land than the North Koreans because they are so flakey. China happy because it's good PR for them and the new provence gives them easier access to the lower Pacific where they continue to court the islands of the South Pacific for their deep sea minerals. Dammit ... might even write the book myself!

Get a writin and make sure there's a happy ending ya know, missiles flying through the air and leaders frantically hitting the abort button only to find that they have had them overridden by a stoned hacker.

[imdying]

Well with the NKs threatening nations to the south and east, I won't actually be surprised if the Chinese in their north-west give them a surprise spanking somehow. They are their erstwhile allies but are an inscrutable and pragmatic bunch.

I expect this is why they've started to tow the line on agreeing to more UN sancitons; they can see where this is going, and they'd rather it was them going in to 'liberate' the place, rather than the USA.

[Zedder]

Get a writin and make sure there's a happy ending ya know, missiles flying through the air and leaders frantically hitting the abort button only to find that they have had them overridden by a stoned hacker.

Don't forget the bit where the hacker, just for good measure, reroutes the entire funds of the global banking system to the coffers of the Catholic Church...

[Akzle]

would you like a game of global thermo nuclear war?

[Oakie]

Well they sure do have a lot of air force bases: http://cryptome.org/eyeball/nk-mil-air/nk-mil-air.htm

[Swoop]

3 April 2013: Over the last few years more details have leaked about South Korean and U.S. plans for what they will do when the government in North Korea collapses. This sort of planning has become a lot more detailed in the last decade and more attention has been paid to discovering the “unexpected” situations before troops on the ground have to deal with them.

Four years ago South Korea made public that if North Korea attacked, South Korea was prepared to go north and do whatever needed to be done. This is no surprise to those who have been observing the South Korean armed forces development since the end of the Cold War in 1991. During the same time the North Korean armed forces have declined because of a bankrupt economy and no money for replacing obsolete equipment or for training. Meanwhile, the booming economy in the south led to the growth of domestic arms industry and the re-equipping the South Korean military with modern, and locally made, weapons.

South Korea has nearly completed a 15 year plan to transform their army from a large force of conscripts, to a smaller, high tech force containing many more, higher paid, volunteers. The south sees this, the "American approach," as superior and proven. Over the last two decades South Korea has developed, and produced in large numbers, their own versions of the U.S. M-1 tank (the South Korean K-1 and K-2), the U.S. M-2 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (the South Korean K-21), the U.S. M-109 self-propelled 155mm howitzer (the South Korean K-9), and much more. South Korea used the American equipment as models and then built on that. South Korea also manufactures an Aegis destroyer (the KDX III class), a new class of frigate (FFK), and a light fighter/trainer jet (the T-50). All this provided South Korea with a decisive military edge over its aggressive northern neighbour.

The southern generals believe that the North Korean military is in terminal decline. Over a decade of famine and extreme poverty has caused severe reductions in maintenance and training in the North Korean military. This has sharply lowered the combat capabilities of the northern force. Corruption and poverty has increased corruption and insubordination up north.

In response to all that, South Korea staff officers quietly began drawing up plans on how they would move into the north. This would happen either in response to an attack from the north or a collapse of the communist police state government up there. In either case it would be a combined military and humanitarian mission. Wargaming out the many possible scenarios made it clear that intelligence would be a major problem because North Korea has been a closed society for 60 years and the U.S. and South Korea have very few informants up there. This has led to several highly classified programs for quickly getting intelligence operatives on the ground up there and keeping them alive. There are also several new tactics for using food and other supplies to quickly win over the North Korean population.

Although most North Koreans now know their government has been lying to them about the outside world, and that life is much better in South Korea, because North Koreans are brainwashed from birth, some will still not welcome the southerners as liberators. South Korea is not making this stuff up, as they have over 24,000 North Koreans who escaped to South Korea, most of them in the last decade. These North Koreans give details about how people think and are likely to react during a collapse up north. Given the food and other shortages up there since the 1990s, any aid will be much appreciated and likely fought over. South Korean troops have to be combat ready but also prepared for relief work and peacekeeping.

There are far fewer roads in the north than in the south and less infrastructure in general. There is also the possibility of Chinese troops coming in as well. China has apparently made plans to annex North Korea, or set up a very pro-China government. But while that is being sorted out the more immediate needs of caring for North Korean civilians and fighting any die hard North Korean soldiers has to be attended to, as well as securing nuclear and conventional weapons storage areas.

While the collapse of the North Korean government may lead to war with China, it will definitely lead to one of the most challenging peacekeeping operations ever.

[mashman]

Don't forget the bit where the hacker, just for good measure, reroutes the entire funds of the global banking system to the coffers of the Catholic Church...

That's a bit Die Hardesque for my liking... then again, if tastefully done it could work well.

[Zedder]

That's a bit Die Hardesque for my liking... then again, if tastefully done it could work well.

Yippee-ki-yay...