Wrong battery preventing bike starting?

[FJRider]

Have you looked at the points yet .. ???

[Edbear]

No - as i said in my original post it doesn't spark unless the battery is

My budget isn't super tight, but a new motobatt will cost me $110 from a local dealer. If its really needed yes i'll get one, but $110 is a lot to spend if i wasn't sure it was the problem.
I've looked briefly a getting a Yuasa, but haven't got any real info for pricing that i could find online.. (12N10, 10Ah).
I've read a few posts where people love the motobatts, while others seem to have bad experiences with them.

Will jam a screwdriver into the carb soon and see what happens

Motobatt had a dud run of batteries recently and a lot of dealers were affected. I don't know if they've resolved it yet so just be aware to ask the question if you do go to buy one. They are the cheapest, but Yuasa is the best of he lead acid ones. I sell the Shorai LiFePO4 batteries which are the best in the world, (and I mean that sincerely, I really do...), and although a bit dearer they have 4x the life cycle of lead acid and are much more powerful.

So it really depends on budget and whether you feel the extra initial cost is worth it for your purposes.

Get that bit of shit out of the carby, buy a new battery and away you go. Talk to ED about a new battery, He,s a good bugger, and will give you a good deal, right ed?

I have been known to....

Have you looked at the points yet .. ???

What a pointless suggestion... Oh, wait...

[FJRider]

What a pointless suggestion... Oh, wait...

The modern motorcycle mechanic often forgets about them. Some of the old ones had an aftermarket CDI fitted .... With the old points still fitted. Easy then to remove the CDI then and go with the points.

Or ... wrongfully assume all bikes have/had a CDI ignition ... or have no idea where to look for them.

[Edbear]

The modern motorcycle mechanic often forgets about them. Some of the old ones had an aftermarket CDI fitted .... With the old points still fitted. Easy then to remove the CDI then and go with the points.

Or ... wrongfully assume all bikes have/had a CDI ignition ... or have no idea where to look for them.

I felt your post deserved some kind of pun but my attempt was rather lame...

[FJRider]

I felt your post deserved some kind of pun but my attempt was rather lame...

I knew you were pulling my leg. I'm not broken up about it though. I guess I'll limp along ...

[Edbear]

I knew you were pulling my leg. I'm not broken up about it though. I guess I'll limp along ...

Yeah, what's the point in pointlessly limping along lamely, punning to breaking point...

[chinny]

For what its worth, sounds like your battery is either flat and needs a good charge up or it is buggered and won't hold a charge. You really need to take some voltage readings:
1. before you start the bike.
2. when the bike is running.
3.charge the battery then take a reading soon as you take it off the charger, then 2 hours later, then about 12 hours later and then about 24 hours from when you took it iff charge. Report your results back here and we can probably give you a good steer as to the problem.

Hope it helps.

Definitely the battery is not quite 100%. Will do the test when i borrow a mates multimeter.
Thanks for the figures - i will post back once done.

Get that bit of shit out of the carby, buy a new battery and away you go. Talk to ED about a new battery, He,s a good bugger, and will give you a good deal, right ed?

Carb should be clean, i think just needs a tune but i could be wrong. Took a whole lot of green stuff (copper carbonate?) the last time i cleaned. Also unblocked the idle/slow jet.

[unstuck]

Carb should be clean, i think just needs a tune but i could be wrong. Took a whole lot of green stuff (copper carbonate?) the last time i cleaned. Also unblocked the idle/slow jet.

Did you clean out the lines and tank too? WhAt about the air filter?

[chinny]

For what its worth, sounds like your battery is either flat and needs a good charge up or it is buggered and won't hold a charge. You really need to take some voltage readings:
1. before you start the bike.
2. when the bike is running.
3.charge the battery then take a reading soon as you take it off the charger, then 2 hours later, then about 12 hours later and then about 24 hours from when you took it iff charge. Report your results back here and we can probably give you a good steer as to the problem.

Hope it helps.

Ok some results. Haven't used the charger yet as i haven't found time to put on the charger and monitor so it doesn't overcharge.

1. Bike off, key out = 12.5V
2a. Bike at idle (no headlight) = 11.9-12.0V
2b. Bike at idle (headlight dipped) = 11.4V

Unless the battery and charging system on the bike are totally goosed i would put my money on the carby.

Does it start on the kick start with the battery in?
If you have a volt meter, test the battery with the bike off, then test it when running.
It should be about 12.8 without engine running and about 13.8 when the bike is running.

If it is markedly different with engine off it will probably be the battery. That's likely if it has been sitting a shed somewhere for ages without any loving.

If it doesn't go over 13 With the engine running (give a bit of a rev) it is likely to be the charging system on the bike.

(FYI The difference between a 5ah and 10ah battery is in how long you can crank for, not how intense it is. 5ah= five amp hours, which means it can supply one amp for 5 hours or two for 2.5 hours etc before it is totally flat)

PS: Just had a thought - you are using fresh petrol?

2c. Bike at med revs = 14.4V

Seems like the battery and charging system are ok then? Or do i still need to stick it on the charger and do the measurements 0hr, 2hr, 12hr etc readings?

Also btw, I found the float valve in the carb doesn't shut properly so fuel drips in even when float valve is meant to be shut. This would mean the engine runs rich, which could be the cause of the engine not doing much past 30% throttle.
Hope to find a replacement float valve..

[FJRider]

Also btw, I found the float valve in the carb doesn't shut properly so fuel drips in even when float valve is meant to be shut. This would mean the engine runs rich, which could be the cause of the engine not doing much past 30% throttle.
Hope to find a replacement float valve..

NO ... it just means it will leak fuel out the overflow when the engine is NOT running. Turn the fuel tap off when you stop. With the engine running ... there should be no issue.

Have you found the points yet ???

[Skiwi]

Ok some results.
Seems like the battery and charging system are ok then? Or do i still need to stick it on the charger and do the measurements 0hr, 2hr, 12hr etc readings?

Sounds good, i think the charging system is working ok. If it was me I would just take a volt reading, then compare it with one about 12 or 24 hours later, long as it is within about 0.1 - 0.5 volts of each other it means the battery is holding its charge ok.

[p.dath]

Just a thought, have you checked the spark plug gap?

[chinny]

NO ... it just means it will leak fuel out the overflow when the engine is NOT running. Turn the fuel tap off when you stop. With the engine running ... there should be no issue.

Have you found the points yet ???

Really? If the float valve ain't working then when the engine runs the fuel level will be higher than designed for. My guess is the overflow level is quite bit higher than the 'normal' level? So a high fuel level in the bowl means more gets sucked up during suction as its easier to suck up...all theoretical guessing at this stage.
I'll check the overflow during running, but as you said i don't think there will be any.

Points! Sorry - will look into this weekend i hope.

Sounds good, i think the charging system is working ok. If it was me I would just take a volt reading, then compare it with one about 12 or 24 hours later, long as it is within about 0.1 - 0.5 volts of each other it means the battery is holding its charge ok.

Sounds good. Thanks again for the reference figures on voltage. Should be able to see this weekend.

Btw, even with a reading of ~12.4V when off the electric start still doesn't work (works with a car battery).
Does the voltage need to be higher, as i thought someone said the Amp-hr rating didnt' play a part here?

Just a thought, have you checked the spark plug gap?

Nope, but its a new NGK spark plug, so hoping it will be ok? The box doesn't even say what the gap should be...will check my bike manual.

Did you clean out the lines and tank too? WhAt about the air filter?

Didn't bother cleaning lines or tank. Tank interior looks good - some pitting rust, but there looks to be a decent fuel filter in place. I put good fuel and oil in the tanks and let it drain out so the lines should be good enough.
Air filter looks like it will fall apart if i tamper with it...But the result is the same regardless of the airfilter being in/out.

[FJRider]

Really? If the float valve ain't working then when the engine runs the fuel level will be higher than designed for. My guess is the overflow level is quite bit higher than the 'normal' level? So a high fuel level in the bowl means more gets sucked up during suction as its easier to suck up...all theoretical guessing at this stage.
I'll check the overflow during running, but as you said i don't think there will be any.

Points! Sorry - will look into this weekend i hope.

You said a "few extra drops of fuel" ... which will NOT result in 30% throttle available.

I'm more inclined to say "Points could be the issue" ... but if the tank outlet at the filter is blocked (LOOK and check it) the lack of throttle will be not getting enough fuel as the engine runs. The overflow will leak fuel out to the ground if the float valve is not shutting off. It would need to be REALLY bad to do it with the engine running.

Take the fuel line off the carb and check fuel flow. (ON or PRIME)

Didn't bother cleaning lines or tank. Tank interior looks good - some pitting rust, but there looks to be a decent fuel filter in place. I put good fuel and oil in the tanks and let it drain out so the lines should be good enough.
Air filter looks like it will fall apart if i tamper with it...But the result is the same regardless of the airfilter being in/out.

Get a new fuel filter. Inline cheapies are good. "Looks can be deceiving"... ok ... but they don't let much past if they've been on a while.
Take the fuel tap off and check the filter above the tap. Make sure the tap isn't blocked.

Last word ... IF YOU CAN'T BE BOTHERED ... neither will we be.

[tri boy]

I sell the Shorai LiFePO4 batteries which are the best in the world,

I'd back a Yuasa over any of the new style anyday. Especially after hearing of circuit card failures on the Shorai.
Last thing I'd want on an electric start big thunper half way through the 42 traverse.MHO
(Both reports came from a well trusted dealer employee).