UK - Slave work schemes

[bogan]

Yes - I know where you are coming from .. My position is that these people get a base benefit - if they work they get that money - if they don't work they get less money ... I can't see how you can argue that they get more money if they work than if they didn't and the money was taken off them.. they get the same money if they work than they would get on the benefit than if they didn't and the benefit wasn't taken off them...

Lets try just qualifying those answers, I've put them in red.

Under the scheme in the OP, its more money if you work than if you don't. Without that scheme, of course there is no incentive to do the same work. Comparing pre-scheme and scheme situations isn't favorable for those who can't find work, but is that relevant?

[Banditbandit]

So - it's a matter of perception and not reality ...

Of course the wider picture is relevent - in considering the moral and ethical considerations (which is what this thread is about) then the wider context is completely relevent ... ethics is always applied contextually ... and so should be considered contextually.

The world is not as black and white as you seem to think it is ..

[bogan]

So - it's a matter of perception and not reality ...

Of course the wider picture is relevent - in considering the moral and ethical considerations (which is what this thread is about) then the wider context is completely relevent ... ethics is always applied contextually ... and so should be considered contextually.

The world is not as black and white as you seem to think it is ..

Actually, I was just correcting you because you tried to call out my literacy level or some shit. Don't even get me started on the wider context.

[mashman]

The future is looking like a bigger budget deficit. Workshy slobs.

She was working voluntarily at the museum. So instead of leaving her there, they decided that she should go and clean someone's shop for them for free. Hmmmmm. I wonder if the shop were receiving govt assistance for her placement? At least she found herself a part time job at the supermarket. And as the gent says, why should he work as a cleaner if it isn't going to give him the skills "promised" to re-enter the work place?

T'would seem, as BB puts it, that private enterprise has become a lazy bludger expecting tax payer money to be used to fund jobs to help them instead of using the money to help the heavily indebted govt. Even at that it's nothing more than slave labour at less than minimum wage. An excellent incentive for business to start letting people go and replacing them with transient dirt cheap staff.

Some fuckers just don't get it. If there is a job to be done, a person should be paid market rates for that job. Not everyone can "make it", coz if they did, who would do the minimum wage jobs that those who "make it" have relied upon all these years. And all because those "slaves" are going to cut into some selfish cunts profit if they have to pay them.

Welcome to the future.

[jonbuoy]

She was working voluntarily at the museum. So instead of leaving her there, they decided that she should go and clean someone's shop for them for free. Hmmmmm. I wonder if the shop were receiving govt assistance for her placement? At least she found herself a part time job at the supermarket. And as the gent says, why should he work as a cleaner if it isn't going to give him the skills "promised" to re-enter the work place?

T'would seem, as BB puts it, that private enterprise has become a lazy bludger expecting tax payer money to be used to fund jobs to help them instead of using the money to help the heavily indebted govt. Even at that it's nothing more than slave labour at less than minimum wage. An excellent incentive for business to start letting people go and replacing them with transient dirt cheap staff.

Some fuckers just don't get it. If there is a job to be done, a person should be paid market rates for that job. Not everyone can "make it", coz if they did, who would do the minimum wage jobs that those who "make it" have relied upon all these years. And all because those "slaves" are going to cut into some selfish cunts profit if they have to pay them.

Welcome to the future.

Welcome to the real world of no free lunches. You can thank professional dole bludgers for milking the system for generations. Try living in the real world where everything you need to have to pay for yourself with no government blanket to wrap yourself in. UK has one of the best benefit systems in the world, it's being used and abused to a point that's crippling the country.

[mashman]

Welcome to the real world of no free lunches. You can thank professional dole bludgers for milking the system for generations. Try living in the real world where everything you need to have to pay for yourself with no government blanket to wrap yourself in. UK has one of the best benefit systems in the world, it's being used and abused to a point that's crippling the country.

Ahhhh yes... reality. You do realise that you missed a few bits out. Like someone is always going to be unemployed as there aren't enough jobs. And that leaving people to fend for themselves without money will turn the country into a total and utter basket case instead of just the half way house that it currently is. Perhaps the fact that some people have settled for not having jobs, meaning that those who do want jobs can have them as there's less competition, is actually doing the workforce a favour by not having seriously disinterested people in jobs that they don't. There's a whiff of reality for ya. Although you're gonna have to pay attention to notice that that side of life exists dear. Please see my avatar for further information.

[jonbuoy]

Ahhhh yes... reality. You do realise that you missed a few bits out. Like someone is always going to be unemployed as there aren't enough jobs. And that leaving people to fend for themselves without money will turn the country into a total and utter basket case instead of just the half way house that it currently is. Perhaps the fact that some people have settled for not having jobs, meaning that those who do want jobs can have them as there's less competition, is actually doing the workforce a favour by not having seriously disinterested people in jobs that they don't. There's a whiff of reality for ya. Although you're gonna have to pay attention to notice that that side of life exists dear. Please see my avatar for further information.

There will always be people unemployed temporarily (exluding people with medical problems or learning difficulties). I´ll explain how the western benefit system should work as you seem to struggle with the concept. The majority of people get up and go to work - even though they might not feel like it. They pay a portion of their wages into a pot. The minority of people that can´t work because of temporary ill health or are currently between jobs take money from that pot to help them live. This system works as long as more or the same money is put into the pot as is taken out. The problem is some people think its OK to take from the pot without ever putting anything back in. Which camp are you in - are you full time employed?

[Ocean1]

Which camp are you in - are you full time employed?

He's from the camp that thinks that pot shouldn't exist, that everyone should just give everyone else everything they own and it'll all work out in the wash. Or some such shite.

[mashman]

There will always be people unemployed temporarily (exluding people with medical problems or learning difficulties). I´ll explain how the western benefit system should work as you seem to struggle with the concept. The majority of people get up and go to work - even though they might not feel like it. They pay a portion of their wages into a pot. The minority of people that can´t work because of temporary ill health or are currently between jobs take money from that pot to help them live. This system works as long as more or the same money is put into the pot as is taken out. The problem is some people think its OK to take from the pot without ever putting anything back in. Which camp are you in - are you full time employed?

I've spent next to no time on the dole, but did spend 6 years in dole town Glasgow. As for the camp I'm in. It's the one marked real world. So, ok you ignored my initial real world look behind the curtain that seems to scare the shit out of your ideology, let's try something different. Take the mechanic from the OP for instance. He possibly has a house, mortgage, pays rates, pays his insurances, was used to a certain standard of living, is probably applying for jobs with a certain level of salary so that he can afford to pay his mortgage, rates, insurances etc... He likely needs to do this so as not to lose everything he has worked for to this day. He may be on the dole for 10 years and be able to keep what he has. Is he a bludger if he can't get that job within 2 years?

What are the likely consequences of removing benefits from the long term beneficiary?

I'm fine with long term beneficiary's for the reasons mentioned in the earlier post. According to a quote from a UK Minister in another thread around here somewhere, there are 5 people for every job. 65 million population, 4+ million on the dole, meaning that there are approx 1 million jobs available. Obviously could be way out with those numbers, irrespective though, let's say that 50% of those 4+ million are "bludgers", there's still 2 people going for every job. Now consider that you're an employer. Would you rather have 1 of the 2 million that "bludge" and don't want to work or 1 of the 2 million who do want to work as an employee? and why?

There still needs to be 2 million on the dole due to lack of jobs. There will always be 2 million unemployed irrespective of who they are... so you're going to be paying exactly the same amount of tax to feed, cloth etc... 2 million people. To me it sounds like you're seeking some form of retribution because people are taking that which you wish them to be greatful for. How do you know they aren't greatful? That's the real world. However you're personal bias also crucifies the mechanic for having worked hard all his life and then having fallen on bad times and anyone that ends up on the dole that doesn't want to be there and all to appease your fucked up sense of morals/ethics/superiority etc... Quality that you ignore that as fantasy.

[mashman]

He's from the camp that thinks that pot shouldn't exist, that everyone should just give everyone else everything they own and it'll all work out in the wash. Or some such shite.

At least put a little conviction into trying to get it right ya grumpy anal fuck nugget.

[Ocean1]

At least put a little conviction into trying to get it right ya grumpy anal fuck nugget.

I would. If I wasn't utterly shagged from working to pay for dole bludgers. Do you know how long it's going to take me to pay this years tax? Fucking July 16th, that's how long.

So, while I'm still paying for someone else's free lunch I'm off for a wee sojourne up country. Wine, Bourbon, more wine, bit of beach racing in the Jag, Bourbon...

Later.

[mashman]

I would. If I wasn't utterly shagged from working to pay for dole bludgers. Do you know how long it's going to take me to pay this years tax? Fucking July 16th, that's how long.

So, while I'm still paying for someone else's free lunch I'm off for a wee sojourne up country. Wine, Bourbon, more wine, bit of beach racing in the Jag, Bourbon...

Later.

Awwwwwwwwwww... it's a hard life, suck it up. Have a fun jaunt and remember, don't drink and drive.

[Banditbandit]

Awwwwwwwwwww... it's a hard life, suck it up. Have a fun jaunt and remember, don't drink and drive.

+1 ... beach racing, wine bourbon ... shit it must be really hard to pay that tax bill !!!

[mashman]

+1 ... beach racing, wine bourbon ... shit it must be really hard to pay that tax bill !!!

bwaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... cannot spread again etc...

[Tigadee]

Try living in the real world where everything you need to have to pay for yourself with no government blanket to wrap yourself in.

Already am...