UK - Slave work schemes

[Brian d marge]

There are generations of families in the UK scrounging off benefits. Too many hands in the pot and not enough hands putting in. Its unsustainable. The money cold be used for health and education (assuming your even remotely interested in being educated of course). If you want to take money from the pot you should work for it.

Do you cloth, feed and give your kids pocket money without ever asking them to help around the house?

If , As Ive shown before , the uk is like NZ then over half of the money spent on support goes in the form of pensions

What this is , is the old divide and demonize technique , pick one group make them out to be the bogie man and societys problems are magically solved

The system is flawed , and in the area of work , just after WW2; women, then emerging nations and finally the computer really gave the job market the boot

Stephen

[Ocean1]

+1 ... beach racing, wine bourbon ... shit it must be really hard to pay that tax bill !!!

Deductible. And in passing let me heartily recommend mission estate's 2011 Syrah, superb.

[jonbuoy]

If , As Ive shown before , the uk is like NZ then over half of the money spent on support goes in the form of pensions

What this is , is the old divide and demonize technique , pick one group make them out to be the bogie man and societys problems are magically solved

The system is flawed , and in the area of work , just after WW2; women, then emerging nations and finally the computer really gave the job market the boot

Stephen

Pensions would take a huge chunk - unless you execute everyone at retirement age how can they not?? Everyone is going to retire and stop working someday. Hopefully those people have already contributed to the retirement fund over their working lives. Problem is now we are living longer than we have planned for in the past. Modern obesity should even things up in a few years when it catches up.

[scumdog]

"A graduate who was forced to work at Poundland for free has won an appeal, in a blow for the Government's back-to-work schemes.

Cait Reilly, 24, from Birmingham, had argued that being made to work in the discount shop for nothing while she looked for a permanent job was illegal.

Jamieson Wilson, 40, an unemployed lorry driver from Nottingham who was stripped of jobseeker's allowance for refusing an unpaid cleaning role, also won his legal challenge."

Ahhhhh the future's looking as bright as the people who are leading us there.

Cry me a river, nasty old world...

[jonbuoy]

I've spent next to no time on the dole, but did spend 6 years in dole town Glasgow. As for the camp I'm in. It's the one marked real world. So, ok you ignored my initial real world look behind the curtain that seems to scare the shit out of your ideology, let's try something different. Take the mechanic from the OP for instance. He possibly has a house, mortgage, pays rates, pays his insurances, was used to a certain standard of living, is probably applying for jobs with a certain level of salary so that he can afford to pay his mortgage, rates, insurances etc... He likely needs to do this so as not to lose everything he has worked for to this day. He may be on the dole for 10 years and be able to keep what he has. Is he a bludger if he can't get that job within 2 years?

What are the likely consequences of removing benefits from the long term beneficiary?

I'm fine with long term beneficiary's for the reasons mentioned in the earlier post. According to a quote from a UK Minister in another thread around here somewhere, there are 5 people for every job. 65 million population, 4+ million on the dole, meaning that there are approx 1 million jobs available. Obviously could be way out with those numbers, irrespective though, let's say that 50% of those 4+ million are "bludgers", there's still 2 people going for every job. Now consider that you're an employer. Would you rather have 1 of the 2 million that "bludge" and don't want to work or 1 of the 2 million who do want to work as an employee? and why?

There still needs to be 2 million on the dole due to lack of jobs. There will always be 2 million unemployed irrespective of who they are... so you're going to be paying exactly the same amount of tax to feed, cloth etc... 2 million people. To me it sounds like you're seeking some form of retribution because people are taking that which you wish them to be greatful for. How do you know they aren't greatful? That's the real world. However you're personal bias also crucifies the mechanic for having worked hard all his life and then having fallen on bad times and anyone that ends up on the dole that doesn't want to be there and all to appease your fucked up sense of morals/ethics/superiority etc... Quality that you ignore that as fantasy.

Mashman you seem to live in a fantasy world where the the government owes you something - they don´t! You happen to have grown up in a freindly society where you get looked after, things are changing - there are too many of us and way too many freeloaders for that to continue. The benefits systems will come to an end the more people bludge the quicker its going to happen.

If he cant get a job in two years then yes he is bludging. How many people that arent bone idle do you know that have been out of work for two years?? You never have for a start. 10 years with no job is just taking the piss - either your chosen field has dissapeared or your useless at what you do - time for a career change.

I agree on one point - the guy that has worked hard for most of his life and has paid a lot into the system is screwed if he looses his job. The benefits system in the UK is not income related - everyone gets the same payout regardless how much they have dumped into the pot. He might have been earning a very good wage supporting a wife and two kids and a mortgage, the dole will not even come close to covering the private health insurance, private pension schemes hes paying into. The benefit system is setup for long term unemployed - there are no instant benefits for decent working folk who happen to fall on temporary bad times. It should be income related on a sliding scale (like Spain), the more you have put in the more you get out. If you stop putting in your unemployment benefit stops after three years and your on your own.

[mashman]

Cry me a river, nasty old world...

Aye... it's a reflection of those who live in it

[mashman]

Mashman you seem to live in a fantasy world where the the government owes you something - they don´t! You happen to have grown up in a freindly society where you get looked after, things are changing - there are too many of us and way too many freeloaders for that to continue. The benefits systems will come to an end the more people bludge the quicker its going to happen.

If he cant get a job in two years then yes he is bludging. How many people that arent bone idle do you know that have been out of work for two years?? You never have for a start. 10 years with no job is just taking the piss - either your chosen field has dissapeared or your useless at what you do - time for a career change.

I agree on one point - the guy that has worked hard for most of his life and has paid a lot into the system is screwed if he looses his job. The benefits system in the UK is not income related - everyone gets the same payout regardless how much they have dumped into the pot. He might have been earning a very good wage supporting a wife and two kids and a mortgage, the dole will not even come close to covering the private health insurance, private pension schemes hes paying into. The benefit system is setup for long term unemployed - there are no instant benefits for decent working folk who happen to fall on temporary bad times. It should be income related on a sliding scale (like Spain), the more you have put in the more you get out. If you stop putting in your unemployment benefit stops after three years and your on your own.

welcome to fantasy island. They do owe me something, you too oddly enough... and as for bludgers etc... you're never going to get it are ya. There's a much bigger picture, yet your ego seems to eclipse it... Fair enough.



Aye, coz Spain is in great condition. I agree, let's take benefits away from those who are unemployed and see what happens. I look forwards to it.

[jonbuoy]

welcome to fantasy island. They do owe me something, you too oddly enough... and as for bludgers etc... you're never going to get it are ya. There's a much bigger picture, yet your ego seems to eclipse it... Fair enough.



Aye, coz Spain is in great condition. I agree, let's take benefits away from those who are unemployed and see what happens. I look forwards to it.

Smoking too much again? I didnt say take benefits away did I? No the government owes you nothing for being born! Your parents never explained that the world didnt owe you a living? Spain is in a poor state from toxic property debt that the government absorbed.

[mashman]

Smoking too much again? I didnt say take benefits away did I? No the government owes you nothing for being born! Your parents never explained that the world didnt owe you a living? Spain is in a poor state from toxic property debt that the government absorbed.

"If you stop putting in your unemployment benefit stops after three years and your on your own."

... 'cept I think you should just take them away straight away as the jobs must be there to be taken... after all and the UK Minister must have been joking when he said that there were 5 people for every job and then in the same breath forcing people into the employ of private businesses for something that ohers get irrespective of their working status. So sling 'em straight away. Can't wait to see what happens.

I never said what the govt owed me and what they do owe me isn't financial... your ASSumptions are just that. No doubt the lack of money, sorry debt, that isn't being pumped into the Spanish economy has nothing to do with it... nope, nothing doing there, it's all down to the housing crisis.

[jonbuoy]

... 'cept I think you should just take them away straight away as the jobs must be there to be taken... after all and the UK Minister must have been joking when he said that there were 5 people for every job and then in the same breath forcing people into the employ of private businesses for something that ohers get irrespective of their working status. So sling 'em straight away. Can't wait to see what happens.

I never said what the govt owed me and what they do owe me isn't financial... your ASSumptions are just that. No doubt the lack of money, sorry debt, that isn't being pumped into the Spanish economy has nothing to do with it... nope, nothing doing there, it's all down to the housing crisis.

Step away from the joint - your posts are making even less sense than normal. Spanish crisis was a property/building bubble that burst - banks had huge toxic debts that the government absorbed. Government spending wasnt out of control like it was in greece prior to the crisis.

Back on topic - benefits are supposed to be a safety net - not a lifestyle choice. Its your choice not to work - but dont expect other people to feed and cloth you free forever.

[mashman]

Step away from the joint - your posts are making even less sense than normal. Spanish crisis was a property/building bubble that burst - banks had huge toxic debts that the government absorbed. Government spending wasnt out of control like it was in greece prior to the crisis.

Back on topic - benefits are supposed to be a safety net - not a lifestyle choice. Its your choice not to work - but dont expect other people to feed and cloth you free forever.

How does a housing bubble burst? What stops a housing bubble from inflating? Lack of investment/money to buy houses. That's what exposes the bubble... no "market" bursts whilst money is still being pumped in. Stop the money, expose and blame the bubble... Where does new money come from?

As I said before. Stop the benefits and see what happens. Will people just drop dead? or will they do what it takes to stay alive/feed their families etc...? 5 people for every job. 2.5 million unemployed. 2 million people left to fend for themselves and lots of them packed in together in housing estates etc... I'm sure they'll just accept death. I suppose the knock on affect of them not spending money will see a few hundred thousand more out of work and no doubt they'll just curl up and die too... aaaaaand of course those few hundred thousand not spending anymore will mean that a few hundred thousand more will have to be good little people and go out with dignity... damn we could be here for a while. Essentially there are more economic benefits to having people on the dole than not.

[blue rider]

Pensions would take a huge chunk - unless you execute everyone at retirement age how can they not?? Everyone is going to retire and stop working someday. Hopefully those people have already contributed to the retirement fund over their working lives. Problem is now we are living longer than we have planned for in the past. Modern obesity should even things up in a few years when it catches up.

Those people now retiring, would have paid taxes? This alone should allow them to receive the standard super?

I know i am a so called "rote socke" as purple wearing unshaven hippie does not really describe me adequately enough, but I always thought that we pay a certain amount of taxes so that should harm befall us, i.e. unemployment, sickness or heaven forbid old age, we could claim a benefit that we all have already paid for.



And why, frankly why is everyone who needs welfare assistance a dole bludger? We hear every day in the news that businesses are closing down, Mainzeal comes to mind, there are a good 200 - 400 jobs on the line.....are these future dole bludgers that don't try hard enough or have not tried hard enough? I mean surely not everyone can land on their feet as quickly as the honorable Mrs. Shipley who already has found a different position.

[scumdog]

Back on topic - benefits are supposed to be a safety net - not a lifestyle choice. Its your choice not to work - but dont expect other people to feed and cloth you free forever.

Yup, my take on benefits too!

[mashman]

Yup, my take on benefits too!

[jonbuoy]

Those people now retiring, would have paid taxes? This alone should allow them to receive the standard super?

I know i am a so called "rote socke" as purple wearing unshaven hippie does not really describe me adequately enough, but I always thought that we pay a certain amount of taxes so that should harm befall us, i.e. unemployment, sickness or heaven forbid old age, we could claim a benefit that we all have already paid for.



And why, frankly why is everyone who needs welfare assistance a dole bludger? We hear every day in the news that businesses are closing down, Mainzeal comes to mind, there are a good 200 - 400 jobs on the line.....are these future dole bludgers that don't try hard enough or have not tried hard enough? I mean surely not everyone can land on their feet as quickly as the honorable Mrs. Shipley who already has found a different position.

Yes thats my take on taxes too - whats your point?

Can you find the quote where I said ALL people needing welfare were bludgers - I dont remember writing it?