NZ A4-K Skyhawks will return to the skies

[awa355]

Of course the Army has had way too much sway in what has gone on over the last 14 years or so and the jokes on them with the purchase of those lemons called LAVs.
That we dont have a fully equipped Air Force and that we effectively freeload to a huge degree off the Australians for regional security is a national disgrace.
The argument is that we cannot afford it. Well, if we stopped handing out hundreds perhaps thousands of million of dollars to keep topping up ( on many assumptive pretences )the blame culture in perpetuity we'd be a lot better off as ONE nation rather than an apartheid based one. If the Government ( any Government ) strongly based the money supply not on speculation but on people that will actually do something productive for the export economy ( and carry people along with them ) that would be largely positive. As would correcting one of Governments biggest failures, not collecting gst on EVERYTHING that crosses the border, the gst that is not being collected ( and remember this is not creating a new tax ) must be huge. Sustainable mining and oil, lets go for it hammer and tong and earn some real revenue. It always amuses me with the Greens, they want all the social services in the world but want to stop all the means of funding same
In a future event of having to defend our national sovereignty ( and who will stand up and say 100% that it will never ever happen in an increasingly unstable world ) what good are ground forces without overhead air cover ? We should always show that we have the intent to defend ourselves rather than looking as resigned weaklings. As a sea locked nation with huge territory it makes perfect sense that our major focus should be the senior service ( Navy ) and a major upscaling of Air Force capability in both surveillance and strike capability. Moreover the infrastructure should always be there in place, something that Helen Clark deliberately and callously removed to satsify her shonky pacifist CV for her long term endeavours to cosy up to her communist mates in the UN.
To that end I hope that ugly bitch burns in hell in perpetuity. And I for one am going that way when I die to be a stoker to make sure of that.

I have to agree with this post entirely. We have a country with a roading , power generating, food production, communications capability that is virtually defenceless. If the Indonesians ( Islamics) decide to have a decent go at Australia, what better staging post to hit the Aussie east coast, could they find than NZ?

Fifteen aircraft loaded with paratroopers, ( here in a few hours ), one or two submarines sitting in the Hauraki gulf, If Australia didn't intervene before they got here, this country would be stuffed. NZ could never have a defence system to hold off any determined aggressor on our own, but at least we could show that we were prepared to do something.

[R6_kid:Me]

I have to agree with this post entirely. We have a country with a roading , power generating, food production, communications capability that is virtually defenceless. If the Indonesians ( Islamics) decide to have a decent go at Australia, what better staging post to hit the Aussie east coast, could they find than NZ?

Fifteen aircraft loaded with paratroopers, ( here in a few hours ), one or two submarines sitting in the Hauraki gulf, If Australia didn't intervene before they got here, this country would be stuffed. NZ could never have a defence system to hold off any determined aggressor on our own, but at least we could show that we were prepared to do something.

Option A: fly straight through Australian airspace without permission and get fucked up.
Option B: fly to the pacific islands while avoiding Aus/NZ airspace, assuming they arrive without the country of destination showing any worry, they might get here.
Option C: fly direct to NZ while circumventing Austrlian airspace, they might make it here. You're talking over 7000km (double the range of the C-130 at full capacity) and thats in a straight line (i.e through Australian airspace). I can't be bothered doing the maths to find out what the actual route would be. Even with a complex system of tankers helping tankers helping tankers helping the transports it's a very long way to fly a fully loaded C-130. Just look at how much effort it took to deploy a pair of Vulcans to the Falklands and you'll see what I mean.

While we are defenceless, we're also quite remote. It's not very often these things happen without escalation, and even then - once they have their people on the ground, the NZ army would be able to respond, and you can reasonably fly F-18's with tankers from the East coast of Aussie to NZ to strike the indonesian ground forces here anyway.

[SPman]

Well, privately, we can put up 3 Strikemasters, a Hawker Hunter, assorted Vampires, Venoms, L39's, but the only one with activated guns is the P40 based at Ardmore - and that's ex Australian.........

[Hinny]

I have to agree with this post entirely. We have a country with a roading , power generating, food production, communications capability that is virtually defenceless. If the Indonesians ( Islamics) decide to have a decent go at Australia, what better staging post to hit the Aussie east coast, could they find than NZ?

Fifteen aircraft loaded with paratroopers, ( here in a few hours ), one or two submarines sitting in the Hauraki gulf, If Australia didn't intervene before they got here, this country would be stuffed. NZ could never have a defence system to hold off any determined aggressor on our own, but at least we could show that we were prepared to do something.

I think you will find that the invaders have almost exclusively come hare by commercial airlines.
Certainly is the easiest way.
Reality vs fantasy.

Joke about the '(Islamics)' - buying into the propaganda?

[Robert Taylor]

I think you will find that the invaders have almost exclusively come hare by commercial airlines.
Certainly is the easiest way.
Reality vs fantasy.

Joke about the '(Islamics)' - buying into the propaganda?

We were so close to being invaded in the 40s, who are you to say that invasion in such a way will never ever threaten us again ? But of course we are too busy paying out those who will forever have their hands out on the premise of historical grievances. In global terms natural resources that we have will be increasingly scarce in an ever more volatile world, and if we are not seen to have any intent to defend that then we are asking for trouble, in the longer term.

I say it again, that we freeload off the Australians for much of our regional security is a national disgrace.

[oneofsix]

We were so close to being invaded in the 40s, who are you to say that invasion in such a way will never ever threaten us again ? But of course we are too busy paying out those who will forever have their hands out on the premise of historical grievances. In global terms natural resources that we have will be increasingly scarce in an ever more volatile world, and if we are not seen to have any intent to defend that then we are asking for trouble, in the longer term.

I say it again, that we freeload off the Australians for much of our regional security is a national disgrace.

We will be safe, we are quietly selling off those resources to the internal corps that want them and lining up the next big thing for sale all ready, so there will no reason to go to invade to grab our resources and if a 3rd party decides to try then the big internationals will get their govts. to come and help. Of course we will be slaves to the big corps but what the hell that is happening anyhow but because it is not slavery in the American Negro sense no one realises it, lets call it surfs instead.

[Swoop]

Now the airframes are in the US, can we call in an airstrike on helen clerke's office in the UN Headquaters building?

[oneofsix]

Now the airframes are in the US, can we call in an airstrike on helen clerke's office in the UN Headquaters building?

Wouldn't you be better off wit ha suicide mission using an amfo pack Cessna? You would stand a better chance getting through to deliver the attack and about as much chance of survival.

[avgas]

Now the airframes are in the US, can we call in an airstrike on helen clerke's office in the UN Headquaters building?

I heard blackwater have nothing to do now. Haven't had a decent contract in weeks since the the last one cooked over.

[Hinny]

We were so close to being invaded in the 40s, who are you to say that invasion in such a way will never ever threaten us again ? But of course we are too busy paying out those who will forever have their hands out on the premise of historical grievances. In global terms natural resources that we have will be increasingly scarce in an ever more volatile world, and if we are not seen to have any intent to defend that then we are asking for trouble, in the longer term.

I say it again, that we freeload off the Australians for much of our regional security is a national disgrace.

And I say again we have been invaded.
There are plenty of suburbs in Ak. that you can visit and have an 'in another country' experience.
That this Govt and previous ones have encouraged this is a National disgrace. I believe NZ. is the only country in the world with Govt. funds being used to encourage people to emigrate to their country.
Our forbears fought to stop this sort of thing.
The invasion of countries etc. is not being waged in the old fashioned sense. It is done far more subtly.
The Rogernomics economic model left out one extremely important element. That being the reduction of our population.
Concentrate our productive focus on those things we have a worldwide comparative advantage in.
We have about 150,000 people involved with agriculture providing the majority of our export receipts.
The entire population of Ak would have a less favourable effect on the bottom line of our Balance of Payments than one dairy farmer.
Sell on a world market and buy on a world market. - Free Trade agreements are what this is about.
No point in going down the Bill Birch road to success by reducing our Labour costs to compete. Half the world earn $2 a day or less. Do we want to compete against that?
I have heard stories of people working for Immigration that complain the department has been taken over by immigrants and they are not following the rules.
That successive Ministers have been asleep at the wheel is the disgrace we need to address.
You don't do that by paying out tax dollars to a Defence dept. to buy Strike aircraft.
To provide the capabilties to defend our maritime economic zone is of course far more important. Fisheries are another major contributor to our financial well-being.
I experienced the rape of our fisheries by foreign fishermen - Japanese lonliners with their dories a few hundred metres from shore. I guess they could be regarded as invaders. The adoption of the 200 mile economic zone shut that down to a large extent.
I have experienced the rape of our seashore fauna by the new immigrants 'strip mining' the foreshore. -No wonder the Tangata Whenua want to dredge up historical documents to try and prevent this.
Are they the only ones not asleep?

[Robert Taylor]

And I say again we have been invaded.
There are plenty of suburbs in Ak. that you can visit and have an 'in another country' experience.
That this Govt and previous ones have encouraged this is a National disgrace. I believe NZ. is the only country in the world with Govt. funds being used to encourage people to emigrate to their country.
Our forbears fought to stop this sort of thing.
The invasion of countries etc. is not being waged in the old fashioned sense. It is done far more subtly.
The Rogernomics economic model left out one extremely important element. That being the reduction of our population.
Concentrate our productive focus on those things we have a worldwide comparative advantage in.
We have about 150,000 people involved with agriculture providing the majority of our export receipts.
The entire population of Ak would have a less favourable effect on the bottom line of our Balance of Payments than one dairy farmer.
Sell on a world market and buy on a world market. - Free Trade agreements are what this is about.
No point in going down the Bill Birch road to success by reducing our Labour costs to compete. Half the world earn $2 a day or less. Do we want to compete against that?
I have heard stories of people working for Immigration that complain the department has been taken over by immigrants and they are not following the rules.
That successive Ministers have been asleep at the wheel is the disgrace we need to address.
You don't do that by paying out tax dollars to a Defence dept. to buy Strike aircraft.
To provide the capabilties to defend our maritime economic zone is of course far more important. Fisheries are another major contributor to our financial well-being.
I experienced the rape of our fisheries by foreign fishermen - Japanese lonliners with their dories a few hundred metres from shore. I guess they could be regarded as invaders. The adoption of the 200 mile economic zone shut that down to a large extent.
I have experienced the rape of our seashore fauna by the new immigrants 'strip mining' the foreshore. -No wonder the Tangata Whenua want to dredge up historical documents to try and prevent this.
Are they the only ones not asleep?

In fairness I agree with much of what you have said, much more than what I disagree with. And the effort you have gone to is admirable in recollecting / analysing through the history, irrespective whether your own considered opinions are agreeable or otherwise.

[Hinny]

In fairness I agree with much of what you have said, much more than what I disagree with. And the effort you have gone to is admirable in recollecting / analysing through the history, irrespective whether your own considered opinions are agreeable or otherwise.

Thankyou for your generous comments.

My considered opinion is that the greatest threat we face in this country is from within.
I caught a glimpse of a billboard today with a picture of Nick Smith on it. Not a very flattering photo I might add.
It posed a question in large type 'Did we elect this man to run Auckland?'
Don't know who paid for it.
Despite his talents he has become rather scary IMHO. as have several others in the party.
I question whether these people are working for the best interests of New Zealander's or have they been seduced by Foreign Govts. and Corporations.
Conspiracy theories abound about these people and I fear for the heritage of our children.

[SPman]

But of course we are too busy paying out those who will forever have their hands out on the premise of historical grievances..

What - Finance companies and Banks!

[Tigadee]

I caught a glimpse of a billboard today with a picture of Nick Smith on it. Not a very flattering photo I might add.
It posed a question in large type 'Did we elect this man to run Auckland?'
Don't know who paid for it.

Not that old Lenny's any better...

[Robert Taylor]

What - Finance companies and Banks!

As well, yes. 100% agree. Aside from being almost totally defenceless ( Clarks disgraceful legacy ) its a real disgrace that we share the same lunacy as the rest of the developed world.....That being that the banks / financial institutions created a needless property boom that has pushed up property prices so much its now impossible for a very high percentage of our younger generations to get on the property ladder.
So while a lot of money has been made by some out of property its leaving a legacy of landlords and tenants with rentals indexed to property values.
The money supply should be for productive people doing something actually useful for the wider economy and employing everyday people doing fulfilling jobs, rather than money grabbing speculators.
Sorry this hasnt got much to do with A4s, well proven in Vietnam and the Falklands.