Hello! (Azukii_rain)

[Azukii_rain]

I've been considering a cbr or ninja, I was told that ninjas in particular were very tinny, and not very forgiving to drive in. Haven't heard much 'bad news' in relation to hondas as off yet.

Yep I saw that bike a little while ago, I'm at that "look at whats on offer but don't actually purchase" phase atm :P gotta get gear and license first!!

But would you really go for something like that as a first bike? I am into the sportier things but when you were all learning did you just go with whatever you could get your hands on? was price a major factor? old vs new etc.

btw, thank you all for the advice and all! I really do appreciate it!

[HenryDorsetCase]

I've been considering a cbr or ninja, I was told that ninjas in particular were very tinny, and not very forgiving to drive in. Haven't heard much 'bad news' in relation to hondas as off yet.

Yep I saw that bike a little while ago, I'm at that "look at whats on offer but don't actually purchase" phase atm :P gotta get gear and license first!!

But would you really go for something like that as a first bike? I am into the sportier things but when you were all learning did you just go with whatever you could get your hands on? was price a major factor? old vs new etc.

btw, thank you all for the advice and all! I really do appreciate it!

my first bike was a Suzuki TS125, that VTR would have seemed like a Laverda or Ducati to 15 year old me. and trust me, price is always a major factor. Sporty is how you ride, not what you ride.

But to answer your question, what you need as a learner is: something that is light, not too powerful, easy and forgiving to ride, and with easy to operate controls and did I mention easy and forgiving to ride?. Why a sport-y-ish naked? simple. You will drop your first bike. (and maybe every other bike you own). Its way less heartbreaking to drop something that is used already, and doesnt have fairings and whatnot which are delicate and expensive to replace. Plus with something like that VTR you have say $3k in it tops. If motorcycling turns out to not be your thing, then you can sell it for say $2500 or whatever: Its cost you fuck all to suck it and see. If you spend $7.5k on a new CBR (particularly if you then add finance cost to that) and you wind up selling it, the new vehicle depreciation thing comes in and all of a sudden you are taking a 30% hit (maybe more) on your investment.

Philosophically too, the reason I moved to naked bikes for the road (naked bike = no fairing) is that the po po are very unsporting these days. On a sport bike you give it a bit of stick and all of a sudden at the top of first gear you are doing 160kph+ (no shit - nearly 200 hp will do that). You then have five more gears to go and the bike will do it all day every day. 140kph on a fullon sports bike is idling. And you are sitting in a racer crouch going "Well, I may as well give it a bit of stick". The issues with that are other road users, NZ roads, and the po po. (and if you get pinged over 140 or 150k you get to walk home from where ever you get stopped). Fuck that.

A naked sports bike at least feels like its goiing quick at more sane road speeds, and they tend to be geared and made for real world conditions. I also have a dodgy lower back and the more upright seating position is way better for my back than a racer crouch.

MHO, but I have been doing it for a while.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I've been considering a cbr or ninja, I was told that ninjas in particular were very tinny, and not very forgiving to drive in. Haven't heard much 'bad news' in relation to hondas as off yet.

I dont know what "tinny" is in this context (about $20 from that dodgy house at the end of the block?) but think carefully about buying a 250cc 4 cylinder repliracer that is 20 years old as a first bike. all those little whirry bits to go wrong, and the black hole which is the maintenance history.

Just FYI the accepted vernacular is "ride" or "ride on" in this context. We "drive in" cars. ;-)

[ducatilover]

I reckon Mr Dorsetcase is bang on the money there.

What does the new CBR or Ninja offer over the VTR (or Hornet, Bandit)?

Let's see:
The CBR has absolutely no power
The Ninja goes about as well as a VTR in a straight line, 99% however are still sitted with IRC RX-01 tyres, which are worse than dry bum sex.
The VTR is cheaper, has proven reliability and can make the best noise out of all of them
The Hornet is the most bullet proof 250 you can buy
The Bandit is just like a Hornet, not as pretty but can be had in a 45hp spec and is much cheaper (I have a mate with a mint one for sale btw)

Pors and Cons of new vs old

Higher km bikes may need typical maintenance sooner, but on the flip side, they may have already had things like steering bearings, forks seals, chains and sprockets replaced recently. I personally don't count these costs because they're wear and tear, and I do all my own work.
There really are no advances in technology, apart from fuel injection, but the FI on the Ninja isn't very nice IMO and the CBR is hopeless unless you're raping it.

I think the Hornet is the nicest handling of the lot from my experiences riding them.
And it will piss in the face of a Ninja in any road going situation, or track. It makes more torque and has around 10hp more.

But, as I said don't limit yourself to a 250 and when you get your L plates, go ride everything you can and make sure it's a decent ride

[GrayWolf]

I'd also agree with Mr Dorset Case,

4 cylinder bikes are more expensive to maintain service costs for a 4 cyl are around 1/3 higher than a 2cyl. Most 'performance' 250's are high revving and to really get them 'moving' you have to wring their necks, literally. This discussion on performance, vs 'sensible', vs 'brand loyalty' everything else is shit has been going on for ??????? length of time. What you will get is a distinct division in the advice, that is almost commensurate with age and experience.
Good example is in another thread where Mr 'Teng theory' has pointed out admirably the 'downside' of 250's.. 8500rpm to hold 110kph... Put simply the MAJORITY of 250's are thrashed, raped, whatever you want to call if for the length of their lives. The fact that some are STILL going is a testament to the engineering of the manufacturers, rather than to the maintenance performed by various owners.
if you dont like the Ninja, you could look at the GPX/ZZR 250, really almost identical motor, but not F.I. Hyo's get shitlisted by so many and really somewhat unfairly. Yes the early ones Do/did have some issues, but overall they are vastly improved these days.
You arent restricted to a 250 now (LAMS).. look at some of the 500 twins (GS500, KE500etc, CB400 single, SR400single and so forth) a 650 single is about the same performance as a 250 bandit/hornet etc,,, but at substantially reduced rev's and more likely to be 'un-raped' mechanically.
There are some neat 'orphans' about as well, my local shop TSS, had a really pretty little bike that is LAMS legal, an SZR660.. an XT660 single banger in a TZR 250 frame... good for around 170-175 kph and will flick through bends... would be an awesome bike over twisty hills.
Suzuki did a bike called the 'Freewind' based on a DR650, but was 'euro-designed'? Looked very similar to a BMW GS650, which of course (GS650) is also LAMS approved.

[bosslady]

Hey Stephanie, welcome to KB!

I only just seen this now...

I have a GN250 as the others have said. I also wanted, and still want, a sports bike but this (the ginny) was by far the best decision to get as a learner. I've probably dropped it 3-4 times by now and if I'd have had fairings (spelling!) I would have scratched them up/broken them but doesn't matter with my gn, few scrapes here and there but that's OK.

Here are some pictures of my GN and also of me on some track days on it http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?u=36924

Also here is a link to some of my blogs http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/bl...36924-bosslady

I also live on the Shore. If you're keen I don't mind popping over some time if you want to have a sit on my bike or whatever! Any questions just PM me!

[Azukii_rain]

Hey there, that would be awesome! sorry for being so late to reply, i've been really busy with work/ selling my car / gettnign a new one haha

but i'd love to meet up and do that!!!