The value of money has dropped by two thirds in 30 years

[ducatilover]

I am now confused.

[Zedder]

Pointless. Value is value is value. You may as well use grains of sand.

Historically, having the Gold Standard has stopped inflation. That isn't pointless.

Using grains of sand as an analogy for value is wrong. Why is gold expensive and sand cheap?

[mashman]

I am now confused.

Just polish something and it'll all matter much less .

Historically, having the Gold Standard has stopped inflation. That isn't pointless.

Using grains of sand as an analogy for value is wrong. Why is gold expensive and sand cheap?

Well, it wasn't as inflationary... but it is still pointless.

Because someone decided that gold was more valuable than sand, that and you can pick sand up off the beach if you like. Yes we could all mine gold, but then who's going to farm etc... It's a perfect analogy for value. Value is attributed by man and we could use anything we liked, and have done in the past i.e. pigs, cows etc... and sand is a lot lighter than gold too .

[Zedder]

Well, it wasn't as inflationary... but it is still pointless.

Because someone decided that gold was more valuable than sand, that and you can pick sand up off the beach if you like. Yes we could all mine gold, but then who's going to farm etc... It's a perfect analogy for value. Value is attributed by man and we could use anything we liked, and have done in the past i.e. pigs, cows etc... and sand is a lot lighter than gold too .

How can it be pointless if it stops inflation? The only times there's been big inflation in recent history is without the Gold Standard. Sure it's man made but it's a control device like brakes on a vehicle.

[mashman]

How can it be pointless if it stops inflation? The only times there's been big inflation in recent history is without the Gold Standard. Sure it's man made but it's a control device like brakes on a vehicle.

The Great Depression? It's not a control device, it's a run away train. Throw the money in and watch the plebs fight over it before they hand it straight back again leaving a trail of social destruction ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Zedder]

The Great Depression? It's not a control device, it's a run away train. Throw the money in and watch the plebs fight over it before they hand it straight back again leaving a trail of social destruction ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

During the Great Depression there wasn't anything that could be called a banking system/Gold Standard /fiscal policy 'cos it was the result of a number of stupid actions and policies by the USA.

It wasn't actually caused by the 1929 Stock Market crash but by events leading up to and including it.

[Brian d marge]

A tinnie was $20 in 1980,,,it's still $20 today.

So what's the fringin' problem,,,,,,,oh yeah drug dealers are the dishonest ones,,,right

loads more THC in it now days

making it even BETTER value !

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Quantitative easing, printing money, social credit, whatever you call it, it is the cause.

Its a pretty simple concept. Money merely measures output - it is not on its own production or the storage of wealth.

So when I plant potatoes and grow potatoes I produce new wealth.

The potatoes have a value that reflects the cost of seed, land, fertiliser, irrigation and my skill and effort.

But when I sell my spuds, the tax man will arrive.

Say I get $100 profit for my spuds. The tax man wants a share. He usually, or at least what we see is he does it by taking a lump sum, say 50%.

So now my $100 gives me $50 of spending power.

But social credit, Quantitative easing, printing money, gives government another tool. Its sees I made $100. It simply prints $100 to match.

Sane result, my spending power is halved. But great for the government. Its takes a while, sometimes decades for people to notice, and ask more (inflation) for their efforts.

Its suits the rich as its a tax on the poor - its doesn't affect those who control assets as much as those who do not.

Its a tax on labour based income - its lowers its value, but it doesn't hurt those whos income is based on asset value, like large companies, who can simply ask for a rate of return on burgeoning asset value.

Governments were all quick to write social credit off as a system. And then to implement it without saying so !

Quantitative easing is the new school. Its a tax on the poor. And as usual, it will do its stuff.

can I just insert in there , that in an equal system ( which I think is what the gold standard is , as gold is being itroduced into the system at the same rate , more or less, as population growth) monetary supply , circulation and the rate of circulation all pans out , more or less ( making Money , which has been said a nice wee trading ticket convenient ! it is )

but ( and you cant blame them ) when banks introduce Fiat money ,at any rate above real growth , now we IMHO get Inflation. If real population growth ( assuming production constant per person ) at 2% and fiat money rate at 7% , then we have inflationary growth of 5 % and thats not sustainable

Stephen

[Akzle]

During the Great Depression there wasn't anything that could be called a banking system/Gold Standard /fiscal policy 'cos it was the result of a number of stupid actions and policies by the USA.

It wasn't actually caused by the 1929 Stock Market crash but by events leading up to and including it.

yeha. the stupid action/policy that is "money".
"the depression" was a needed reset to a fucked up system that needs a reset every now and then to balance the books (and remind the plebs to get back to work). of course, the scheming jews don't get reset, they're rich.
we're techinically in a fiscal depression now. but the good old us is so kindly printing the "money" to get us out of it.
it'll be interesting to see how this one rides out, i'm hoping china takes over america, properlike.

[jonbuoy]

I don't think that's breaking news, everyone must remember their grandparents going all misty eyed over how they could have a great night out for tuppence and still have change at the end if the night. We will always have some inflation as de-flation is generally viewed to be undesirable.

[Zedder]

I don't think that's breaking news, everyone must remember their grandparents going all misty eyed over how they could have a great night out for tuppence and still have change at the end if the night. We will always have some inflation as de-flation is generally viewed to be undesirable.

Yes, in some ways inflation is inevitable.

However, some form of deflation usually follows a period of increased inflation or recession, as a correcting measure. Too much deflation is certainly bad though.

[sidecar bob]

A tinnie was $20 in 1980,,,it's still $20 today.

So what's the fringin' problem,,,,,,,oh yeah drug dealers are the dishonest ones,,,right

Supply & demand.
Weed is so 1983.

[slofox]

"The value of money has dropped by two thirds in 30 years."

No wonder I'm so fucking poor!

[mashman]

During the Great Depression there wasn't anything that could be called a banking system/Gold Standard /fiscal policy 'cos it was the result of a number of stupid actions and policies by the USA.

It wasn't actually caused by the 1929 Stock Market crash but by events leading up to and including it.

According to the interwebz there was a gold standard during the great depression and moving away from the gold standard dragged the world out of the mire. Some of my reading blames bank runs for the great depression itself... something I'm more than happy to agree with, coz they is a bunch of fucketty fuck fuck psychopaths.

At the end of the day it's as Akzle says. At some point in time TPTB (the real shady fuckers who issue the money etc...) decide to have a stocktake. Have you eve heard of a code freeze? Meh, a code freeze is when you don't produce another fuckin thing until you know where you're at. That's what my money is on in regards to a cause for this GFC.

But on-topic, money hasn't changed value, goods/services have, so money actually isn't the issue (not its value anyway), it's the interest on that money and the inflation required to get that interest back. I find it hard to conceive of a reason as to why we would want to value effort/goods/services etc... if we ever went for some form of minimal inflation economy. Eventually the result will be the same i.e. not enough money for the level of essential services required by everyone (including bum wipers and their needs etc...). There's only 1 way to achieve that and it just so happens that that 1 way also solves a myriad of problems that we have today. It makes sense to do it and half arsing it with valuing effort/goods/services is no different than we have today... even if inflation is slow and grows slowly. I just wanna see shit get done right first time for a change (amongst many many other things). So shove your value up one jacksie, coz that all it's really good for

[Zedder]

According to the interwebz there was a gold standard during the great depression and moving away from the gold standard dragged the world out of the mire. Some of my reading blames bank runs for the great depression itself... something I'm more than happy to agree with, coz they is a bunch of fucketty fuck fuck psychopaths.

At the end of the day it's as Akzle says. At some point in time TPTB (the real shady fuckers who issue the money etc...) decide to have a stocktake. Have you eve heard of a code freeze? Meh, a code freeze is when you don't produce another fuckin thing until you know where you're at. That's what my money is on in regards to a cause for this GFC.

But on-topic, money hasn't changed value, goods/services have, so money actually isn't the issue (not its value anyway), it's the interest on that money and the inflation required to get that interest back. I find it hard to conceive of a reason as to why we would want to value effort/goods/services etc... if we ever went for some form of minimal inflation economy. Eventually the result will be the same i.e. not enough money for the level of essential services required by everyone (including bum wipers and their needs etc...). There's only 1 way to achieve that and it just so happens that that 1 way also solves a myriad of problems that we have today. It makes sense to do it and half arsing it with valuing effort/goods/services is no different than we have today... even if inflation is slow and grows slowly. I just wanna see shit get done right first time for a change (amongst many many other things). So shove your value up one jacksie, coz that all it's really good for

What I wrote earlier still stands though Masho. The banking system was a joke (many under funded small to medium banks) the gold standard wasn't used as a means of controlling inflation which it was meant to do and President Hoover did nothing positive to fix the problem. Countries stopped using the gold standard because there was massive deflation.

The reasons for the Great Depression were: A credit boom, too much buying shares on the margin, irrational overconfidence in general, production demand outstripped supply, and agriculture was in recession already. The scene was set and the sharemarket crash just added to it. Incidently, the sharemarket made a comeback after only a few months but the downward spiral had bitten too deep by then. But yeah, Akzle's right...