The value of money has dropped by two thirds in 30 years

[Ocean1]

We know how much you have, we know how frivolously you live, we think you can pay more and will dream up any number of approaches to eek that cash outta ya. War on the middle classes will no doubt have business casualties, but that's progress for ya eh .

Perhaps if they stopped voting for political entities that promise more spending it'd improve the situation, eh?

Or are the majority so retarded that they don't see the link between what govt spends and what it taxes?

[mashman]

Perhaps if they stopped voting for political entities that promise more spending it'd improve the situation, eh?

Or are the majority so retarded that they don't see the link between what govt spends and what it taxes?

There is some merit to that. As they say, it only encourages them.

Most definitely, although they'd have to care first.

[Ocean1]

Most definitely, although they'd have to care first.

Don't matter a fuck whether they care or not. They need >50% votes, have you noticed how many voters recieve more from the govt than they pay in tax?

55%.

You can fix it easy enough.

You get to vote only if you were one of the 45% who generated a positive contribution last year.

What sort of government do you suppose those who actually pay the bills might elect?

[imdying]

So...lemme guess, you and imdying are full on doing something that will make a big change and make life better for all of us?

Well good on YOU guys, tell me how it all works out eh!

Nope, I'm on the other end... the current problems benefit me so I'm hardly likely to want to change the status quo am I. Having said that, your attitude is typical, and half the reason I can get away with rorting the system in perfectly legal and legitmate manner... All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing etc etc

Given what Mashie does for a living, I dare say he too is rolling in it and in reality could give two fucks if you peasants suffer.

[Akzle]

(And I'm not sure what failure you think I found hard to handle...)

the IQ test to do anything other than eat donuts and write tickets?

[Akzle]

and today i hear, just now, that only 8% of the world's "money" exists... go figure.

[Zedder]

Call it what you like, the true wealth of any society is its ability to produce goods and services coupled with it's ability to consume them.

An individual's true wealth is their ability to consume the available goods and services that it creates.

It is therefore the current purchasing power of your dollar, relative to the cost of production that is important.

The problems faced with monetary system failings are man made therefore the solutions are man made also.

What is missing is the "human will" to front up and solve the problem, mainly due to fear of losing perceived "personal advantage" created along with the problem!

Create a need and then exploit the greed ... it is knowledge and ignorance that allows any faulty system to exist and prevail!

All I was writing about was supply and demand in terms of fixing a value of something. Gold is short in supply and high in demand, sand is the opposite. Hence the value of gold is higher.

[Zedder]

Nope, I'm on the other end... the current problems benefit me so I'm hardly likely to want to change the status quo am I. Having said that, your attitude is typical, and half the reason I can get away with rorting the system in perfectly legal and legitmate manner... All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing etc etc

Given what Mashie does for a living, I dare say he too is rolling in it and in reality could give two fucks if you peasants suffer.

The law/situation has provided a "rortable" situation and you're exploiting it. I suppose it's about subjective morals.

[mashman]

Don't matter a fuck whether they care or not. They need >50% votes, have you noticed how many voters recieve more from the govt than they pay in tax?

55%.

You can fix it easy enough.

You get to vote only if you were one of the 45% who generated a positive contribution last year.

What sort of government do you suppose those who actually pay the bills might elect?

True. Currently it doesn't matter.

It is easy enough to fix. Preferably my way but...

Blame the employers form not paying enough in the way of wages for those 55% to be in the position where they need to claim for assistance. then they can all have a vote.

The sort of govt that gives them stuff for free .

Given what Mashie does for a living, I dare say he too is rolling in it and in reality could give two fucks if you peasants suffer.

Not rolling in it, certainly have been in a position to structure my affairs in such a way as to save a fuckload more than I have, but didn't re: social conscience. I see no reason to burn my time and effort in the pursuit of money where the jobs pays ok money . I'd rather work for free and receive what I wanted for free though .

and today i hear, just now, that only 8% of the world's "money" exists... go figure.

Less than I thought, but not unexpected. Only 8% to go before it's all handled digitally through our iFarts eh. Can't wait for the day when people are kidnapped whilst nasty men live it up large using their phones to run up large bills. Should be fun

All I was writing about was supply and demand in terms of fixing a value of something. Gold is short in supply and high in demand, sand is the opposite. Hence the value of gold is higher.

If it was illegal to take sand off the beach and try to use it in a system where sand was the currency (counterfeiting), then sand would be seen as scarce... we'd also have beach police (my kinda job) and very full jails. Given that there is an unlimited amount of money available to the money men of the world, we may as well use sand instead of gold or money or precious rocks etc... as it's all about perception and the law and not about economic value, supply and demand, scarcity etc... now is it? It's all a crock of overly complicated horse shit given that the ultimate goal is to do things better than we did before. Took me plenty of years to realise that, but NOW I'm here, I'm glad I'm not where I was.

[Zedder]

If it was illegal to take sand off the beach and try to use it in a system where sand was the currency (counterfeiting), then sand would be seen as scarce... we'd also have beach police (my kinda job) and very full jails. Given that there is an unlimited amount of money available to the money men of the world, we may as well use sand instead of gold or money or precious rocks etc... as it's all about perception and the law and not about economic value, supply and demand, scarcity etc... now is it? It's all a crock of overly complicated horse shit given that the ultimate goal is to do things better than we did before. Took me plenty of years to realise that, but NOW I'm here, I'm glad I'm not where I was.

It's about perception to a certain extent but it's mainly about structure. The "system" has come up with a means of exchange (money) which is unfortunately (to some) very changeable/tradeable while the earlier gold standard was reasonably set in comparison. The overridng intent is to make things stable.

As I wrote earlier gold is more rare than sand so it makes it more naturally precious. It could equally be the other way 'round due to some geological quirk.

The other end of the spectrum is someone like Lysander Spooner, who incidently I admire for his stand on natural justice, but like all radicals or extremists, made himself unpopular due to his abrasive attitude and actions. He had some very valid points though.

[scumdog]

the IQ test to do anything other than eat donuts and write tickets?

Too many here take stuff too seriously.

Being bucks-up ain't all it's made out to be.

Have you seen the price of custom billet wheels lately? - enough to make you cry...and don't tell me about the service in Palms Spring restaurants, they won't get THIS guy back!

[mashman]

It's about perception to a certain extent but it's mainly about structure. The "system" has come up with a means of exchange (money) which is unfortunately (to some) very changeable/tradeable while the earlier gold standard was reasonably set in comparison. The overridng intent is to make things stable.

As I wrote earlier gold is more rare than sand so it makes it more naturally precious. It could equally be the other way 'round due to some geological quirk.

The other end of the spectrum is someone like Lysander Spooner, who incidently I admire for his stand on natural justice, but like all radicals or extremists, made himself unpopular due to his abrasive attitude and actions. He had some very valid points though.

It's ALL about perception. Take my position for instance. I see no need for money to exist at all. Granted that no financial system is better than any financial system, but the perception is that money does more harm than good, and contrary to the advert, it's not what you do with it that counts. I understand why the system is there and why it is set up the way it is (powerful men being fucktards immediately springs to mind), but the medium of exchange for goods is conducted using a token. If that token is perceived to be precious and therefore worth more value, then it will be so. If that token wasn't, then the opposite would be so. The quantity and form of that token is irrelevant as it is the perception that gives it its state. You perceive money against gold as a better way to do things, I perceive that you're full of shit and that you really haven't though things though . The market i.e. the value of every good and service is set by perception... even to the point where a CEO can leave their position and their share value will either rise or drop depending on the perception of how well he was doing at his job.

Mr Spooner was likely telling the truth that no one liked hearing and therefore they perceived his attitude and actions as abrasive... where someone like myself may well have considered him to be thoughtful and well reasoned. Perception is EVERYTHING.

[Zedder]

It's ALL about perception. Take my position for instance. I see no need for money to exist at all. Granted that no financial system is better than any financial system, but the perception is that money does more harm than good, and contrary to the advert, it's not what you do with it that counts. I understand why the system is there and why it is set up the way it is (powerful men being fucktards immediately springs to mind), but the medium of exchange for goods is conducted using a token. If that token is perceived to be precious and therefore worth more value, then it will be so. If that token wasn't, then the opposite would be so. The quantity and form of that token is irrelevant as it is the perception that gives it its state. You perceive money against gold as a better way to do things, I perceive that you're full of shit and that you really haven't though things though . The market i.e. the value of every good and service is set by perception... even to the point where a CEO can leave their position and their share value will either rise or drop depending on the perception of how well he was doing at his job.

Mr Spooner was likely telling the truth that no one liked hearing and therefore they perceived his attitude and actions as abrasive... where someone like myself may well have considered him to be thoughtful and well reasoned. Perception is EVERYTHING.

Perception is subjective Masho. Therein lies the problem, and if left to take its natural course, it ultimately leads to anarchy and threatens society. TPTB can't let that happen.

Spooner advocated anarchy which people in general, couldn't allow. Do you blame them? I know you can't wait for the end of "the system" but until there's a much better replacement that ticks all the boxes, yer bums oot ra windae.

[Ocean1]

Blame the employers form not paying enough in the way of wages for those 55% to be in the position where they need to claim for assistance. then they can all have a vote.

Why? are you not aware that for the vast majority of employers their wage bill is not only by far their largest cost but several orders of magnitude larger than their profit?

The sort of govt that gives them stuff for free .

In which case they wouldn't qualify to vote, would they?

[mashman]

Perception is subjective Masho. Therein lies the problem, and if left to take its natural course, it ultimately leads to anarchy and threatens society. TPTB can't let that happen.

Spooner advocated anarchy which people in general, couldn't allow. Do you blame them? I know you can't wait for the end of "the system" but until there's a much better replacement that ticks all the boxes, yer bums oot ra windae.

I guess history has proven that time and time again... yet they haven't learned. Imparting more and more restrictions and controls on people generally leads to the afore mentioned anarchy and I don't think TPTB are trying to avoid it happening. If it's that inevitable, then the rules of the game need to be changed. I've got brand new shiny rules just waiting for a country that's willing to put the good of their entire country to the fore above their demands of their economy.

I agree in regards to anarchy. There may well have been a time where I was happy to watch a govt fall, but as you say, what do you replace it with... given that where one "party" is removed, there's always another there to take its place and reap the rewards instead of change things for the better. I have a replacement that ticks all of the boxes, I just need funding to explain it to the population so that they can have a chance to vote on it. That way the transition can be managed, transgressions forgotten (yup including bankers etc...), prisoners released that haven't really done anything wrong in the eyes of the "new laws" etc... essentially a clean slate for just about all concerned with which to do and be the best they can... ommmmmmmmmm. Otherwise, why bother and why not just let history repeat itself. the next revolution should be a stonker given the weapons that TPTB have at their beckon call and given that our "defence" forces are such good lapdogs for their masters.