How to keep up on a small bike

**FJRider** · 6th March 2013, 15:28

Originally Posted by Dragon

Id be happy if everyone could do the speedlimit comfortablly and be able to recognize hazards

Some oh shit handling skills would be nice as well

If you continue at (and above) the speed limit ... you will develop some "Oh Shit Handling skills" ... and not everybody is capable (or safe) to do the speed limit "comfortably". It's not always wise to be on some roads AT the speed limit ... even if your bike is "capable". A few would have made allowances for you when you had the L plate ... and no doubt a few more experienced riders will still be making allowances for you. One of the hazards THEY see ... will be you.
Your suggestion/expectation that everybody should be able to "do the speed limit" ... on the rides you participate in ... is a little selfish don't you think ... ??? Or don't you want those dam learners ruining your ride .. ???

I don't know what the "find out what each brake will do" is about ... ??? They BOTH stop you. 70% + of your efficient braking is with the front wheel alone. As soon as you touch the brake (front or back) the bike weight (including the riders) is transferred forward ... to the front wheel. So if you only use the back brake ... it wont stop you in time ... at some stage (very) soon.

**Dragon** · 6th March 2013, 15:50

Originally Posted by FJRider

If you continue at (and above) the speed limit ... you will develop some "Oh Shit Handling skills" ... and not everybody is capable (or safe) to do the speed limit "comfortably". It's not always wise to be on some roads AT the speed limit ... even if your bike is "capable". A few would have made allowances for you when you had the L plate ... and no doubt a few more experienced riders will still be making allowances for you. One of the hazards THEY see ... will be you.
Your suggestion/expectation that everybody should be able to "do the speed limit" ... on the rides you participate in ... is a little selfish don't you think ... ??? Or don't you want those dam learners ruining your ride .. ???

I don't know what the "find out what each brake will do" is about ... ??? They BOTH stop you. 70% + of your efficient braking is with the front wheel alone. As soon as you touch the brake (front or back) the bike weight (including the riders) is transferred forward ... to the front wheel. So if you only use the back brake ... it wont stop you in time ... at some stage (very) soon.

Im not being selfish and I dont think ive ever held anybody up that much tbh

I have no problem with people riding to the conditions all Im trying to point out is that if you cant be comfortable doing the speed limit then you need to work out why

I only touch the brakes when im about to stop or im going fast (and the gears wont slow me into a corner)

I like to know if the rear brake will slide the back or and how much force the front needs to start make you go flying

I dont only use the rear brake

Clearly you didnt get what I was trying to say

**FJRider** · 6th March 2013, 16:16

Originally Posted by Dragon

Im not being selfish and I dont think ive ever held anybody up that much tbh

I have no problem with people riding to the conditions all Im trying to point out is that if you cant be comfortable doing the speed limit then you need to work out why

I only touch the brakes when im about to stop or im going fast (and the gears wont slow me into a corner)

I like to know if the rear brake will slide the back or and how much force the front needs to start make you go flying

I dont only use the rear brake

Clearly you didnt get what I was trying to say

Making allowances for people .. is not saying those people are holding anybody up .... Just the allowances are ... that they are just given more room (front and back) ... pick-up rates are a little slower ... and those other riders don't have a high expectation of their abilities. Their own safety depends on it. You may well feel then ... YOU are "keeping up" ...

Those that can't (or wont) travel at the speed limit already KNOW why. They either don't have a bike capable of doing it safely, or they themselves have not the ability or confidence to travel at that speed. (it doesn't stop a few idiots trying though) Both of those can be gained eventually ... through experience on the road. I hope YOU make allowances for them too ...

The reaction of the bike back end will vary at different speeds, different road surfaces (not all sealed roads are equal) different angles the bike is on ... and those white lines/oil/loose gravel patches ... all make it a lottery how YOUR back end will react to the conditions at that time.

You said nothing in your post an L plater with no experience would get any help from. Plenty of what you said ... you don't seem to understand why it is.

**TheTengTheory** · 6th March 2013, 16:25

Originally Posted by Dragon

Im not being selfish and I dont think ive ever held anybody up that much tbh

I have no problem with people riding to the conditions all Im trying to point out is that if you cant be comfortable doing the speed limit then you need to work out why

I only touch the brakes when im about to stop or im going fast (and the gears wont slow me into a corner)

I like to know if the rear brake will slide the back or and how much force the front needs to start make you go flying

I dont only use the rear brake

Clearly you didnt get what I was trying to say

You should learn to write in paragraphs not one liners....I basically skipped most of what you wrote and the only thing I got from that, is you whinging about people not learning as fast as you.

I completely agree with the ride at your own pace. While I have had the occasional urge to play keep up with the big bikes...I also realise the limitations of a 250 in doing that as well as my riding skills. I don't know why people like to go fast and keep up with the faster riders...Whats the point riding in ass puckering fear around every corner. Not very fun in my opinion as well as monumentally silly.

BTW the brake distribution IS covered in the road code. If you wanna find out how much it takes to go flying...go to a carpark and squeeze em good. That'll teach you real fast without killing anyone. I find slow speed riding to be challenging as hell....open road is dare I say it...easy. .....technically past a certain speed (around 20-30kph) it becomes physically impossible for the bike to fall over by itself due to rotational inertia.

Slow speed...thats where the money's at....I'm dreaming of the day I can do a full lock turn without dabbing my foot or dropping my steed.

If I've raised a different topic than whoops.

sue me.

**Maha** · 6th March 2013, 16:30

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Nup. Two different things.
And before you can go fast, you must first go slow. Learn pace riding (set a reasonable speed and try to maintain it), be smooth with accelerating and gear changing, read the road conditions as far ahead as is practical/possible and adjust speed through throttle control and road position to setup corner lines. Brakes are for stopping/emergencies.
Get the above right and then you are in a better position to up the pace a little. A little. Do not try to keep up with better riders. Perhaps ask them to keep you in their mirror/s so they keep to your speed.

Every new/learner rider should read and take this in, and do it every time they take to the road, until it becomes second nature.
The enjoyment gained by reading these few words and putting them into a practical situation, would be rewarding enough to any learner.

Well said John.

**FJRider** · 6th March 2013, 16:41

Originally Posted by TheTengTheory

... open road is dare I say it...easy. .....technically past a certain speed (around 20-30kph) it becomes physically impossible for the bike to fall over by itself due to rotational inertia.

So ... you're saying bikes don't ... can't ... crash under braking ... ???

**DrDarkMatter** · 6th March 2013, 16:46

Originally Posted by Maha

Waitarere beach at low tide?

I didnt think of that, needs to be hard packed tho

**FJRider** · 6th March 2013, 16:54

Originally Posted by DrDarkMatter

I didnt think of that, needs to be hard packed tho

Do laps of the local supermarket car park ... at busy times. Get that well practiced and the open road will be a breeze.

Go back when the supermarket is closed for the faster practice stops. (Don't forget the clutch)

**Subike** · 6th March 2013, 17:01

Slow down, ride with in the ability of the bike or die.......those are your choices.
A 250 will barley keep up for very long, and to do so you put yourself into that OH FUCK zone.
Ride to your ability and the bikes ability, not the groups.
I now ride a 250, I dont try to keep up on the open road with bigger bikes.....thats stupidity.
If I wanted to do that I would have taken my 1100 on that ride.
250's are a heap of fun to ride, but they can also get you into the shit when extending their limits very very fast.
Your a learner, ride like your learning, slow......the end.

**Motu** · 6th March 2013, 17:48

Not learner stuff, but we all have to learn sometime. Love riding gutless bikes - it's all about momentum. Don't lose speed - that means never backing off, brakes for last minute or emergencies, looking well ahead and reading the road, using downhills for advantage. I learnt this stuff on a 13hp 500cc engine in a bike that weighed 425lbs. Dangerous sure - but danger is fun. What sort of wimp always plays it safe?

**ducatilover** · 6th March 2013, 17:50

Originally Posted by FJRider

So ... you're saying bikes don't ... can't ... crash under braking ... ???

He said "by itself", no rider input.

YOu're more than welcome to borrow my spectacles.

**EJK** · 6th March 2013, 17:50

Just curious, why do you have to "Keep Up"?

**FJRider** · 6th March 2013, 18:15

Originally Posted by ducatilover

He said "by itself", no rider input.

YOu're more than welcome to borrow my spectacles.

Lock the front (or back wheel up) ... and half the "Rotational inertia" disappears ... and push then ... comes to shove. (you guess which direction ... by my guess is down)

All that (everytime) ... on flat/dry roads, with new/good tyres .... with no loose surface .... and always on a straight road. In perfect weather conditions. (with no other traffic involved)

**ducatilover** · 6th March 2013, 18:20

Originally Posted by FJRider

Lock the front (or back wheel up) ... and half the "Rotational inertia" disappears ... and push then ... comes to shove. (you guess which direction ... by my guess is down)

All that (everytime) ... on flat/dry roads, with new/good tyres .... with no loose surface .... and always on a straight road. In perfect weather conditions. (with no other traffic involved)

He said the bike doesn't fall over by itself.
We know full well that it can fall over when the rider cocks up