How to keep up on a small bike

[Katman]

Holy bejeeeebus. Thank fuck for Thursday nights

Yeah, roadside carnage is just collateral damage for you guys, ain't it?

[=cJ=]

Funny thing I've noticed, the really quick guys never mention how fast they are...

[FJRider]

As said, the attention doesn't disappear you still have to look for cars, road defects, wayward animals etc..

You have to ... but if you don't even notice your own speedo. You wont see a sheep coming onto the road 20 metres to the front of you ...

If you are doing the flow on the race track, what are you, the pace car? When you're on the track you can push, and use all of your brakes and all your revs (while riding the flow my bike almost never revs over 10000). Often those that do it say they never use the brakes if you can race without brakes and not get lapped you should be riding motoGP.

The open road is not a racetrack (personal or public). And little comparison can be made between the two.
When did brakes come into the "zone" conversation .. ???

As I said in my earlier post, you are responsible for what you do on the road, most of us are quite comfortable cruising at 200 on a straight road, and you need to make the decision on what is an appropriate speed.

It's a poor example of a motorcyclist ... that relies on 200 km/hr capable straight roads to get their kicks.
I can do that on a 20 year old bike ... but thats not motorcycling as I know it ...

As far as a new rider doing the flow what's your definition of a new rider, how many times do you have to get on a bike to be considered "not new" how many hours saddle time, how many kays, does all of it need to be on the road, is trail riding worth anything, or track time.... I said newer, ie someone who a reasonable level of skill to be riding difficult roads.

Being the free country that it is ... you CAN do it all on an L plate. The size of your gonads has little to do with it. No matter how long you've been doing it ... no matter how skilled you are at riding ... no matter how lucky you are to have/find a place to do it ... ONE mistake (and not always your mistake) and you are the subject of a small column on page three. And (maybe) the subject of a "Rider Down" thread on KB.

If you want that ... go for your life ...

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[FJRider]

Yeah, roadside carnage is just collateral damage for you guys, ain't it?

If they can keep up ...

[slofox]

Funny thing I've noticed, the really quick guys never mention how fast they are...

Doesn't pay to advertise breaches of the regs, eh.

[GrayWolf]

You can try to talk up the virtues of 'The Zone' all you like. (I do actually know what you're talking about).

I just happen to think there is no value to be gained in promoting it.

I would suggest you know shit about Csitzenmihalya's theory of 'Flow'... your constant response (and others) is focussed on SPEED... and focus ONLY on what you are doing, the skill for riding a bike is the whole package, internal and external awareness, as well as the skill actual of physically riding.
the idea of a state of flow, is when skill is equal to the challenge.... a state of timelessness, loss of 'self' is achieved. Flow can be found at work, See Kelly's theory on work .... pure work, to work for pleasure (restoring an old motorcycle is work for pleasure) This very work can induce a state of flow,,, how often have you been working in the garage and what seems minutes has been a few hours? State of flow.

This idea of the 'Zone' as so many motorcyclists perceive it, Yourself included is incorrect. Speed is NOT the object... Flow could be riding a low power bike like a Royal Enfield 500 Bullet through a series of tight twisty bends,,, certainly not fast, but if you are smooth, seemingly effortless through the bends, but having to think, be aware and mentally alert the whole time but not anxious or stressed, Challenge (the road itself) is equal to the skill you have as a rider...THAT is the state of flow as theorised. Riding balls out fast, is generally overconfidence above skill in most riders...

[Deano]

Yeah, roadside carnage is just collateral damage for you guys, ain't it?

Once again you know fuck all. What is this roadside carnage you speak of ?

Have another beer and ride home.

Collateral damage would be you calling me the names you do to my face, instead of behind the safety of your keyboard.

[Ocean1]

Once again you know fuck all.

You do him a disservice, dude.


He never actually stopped knowing fuck all.


It's sorta his specialty, y'know?

[Katman]

I would suggest you know shit about Chitzenmihalya's theory of 'Flow'...

Chitzenwhatsit's theory of 'Flow' doesn't readily have any serious reality in motorcycling.

There's more liklihood of his theory being seen as some sort of Invincibility Cloak rather than it producing safer riders.

Save it for the track.

[Kickaha]

That is an insane speed on a public road.

Most of the guys I knew who cruised at those speeds on the road are dead just now.

Depends entirely on what road and what level of traffic

We used to travel at 160kmh + a lot of the time, none of us died and the only major accident was at less than 80kmh when a van cut a corner into us

[GrayWolf]

Katman's knowledge of the theory of 'Flow' doesn't readily have any serious reality in motorcycling.

I perceive the theory being seen as some sort of Invincibility Cloak rather than it producing safer riders.

Save it for the track.

<<<< fixed it for you

Once again you simply display a knowledge of nothing K'man, the flow theory is a Psychological 'Wellness' theory, it could more readily be applied or used by instructors/mentors.. Understanding the state of arousal for a beginner is more likely to be anxiety and quite simple challenges will be sufficient to their skill level is hardly a 'worthless tool', is it? But then I bow to your superior knowledge on these subjects, I just wish I'd had your amazing knowledge to learn from at University.

[Katman]

<<<< fixed it for you

Once again you simply display a knowledge of nothing K'man, the flow theory is a Psychological 'Wellness' theory, it could more readily be applied or used by instructors/mentors.. Understanding the state of arousal for a beginner is more likely to be anxiety and quite simple challenges will be sufficient to their skill level is hardly a 'worthless tool', is it? But then I bow to your superior knowledge on these subjects, I just wish I'd had your amazing knowledge to learn from at University.

Anyhow, back to post #206.

[sugilite:Me]

My opinion on these "zones", is they are near indefinable, unique to each person and unteachable. For the most part, I don't often find myself in my zone. There is however one road I like to do where it happens more often than not, my old favorite the Akatarawas. Yes, the road many love to hate as it is a insanely tight and winding two way road, that is for the most part is only one lane wide. So for many, every time they come upon a car, it is a surprise, and/or an "oh shit" moment. I've done that road well over 200 times. When I go into my zone, I go into some sort of an altered state of consciousness. This may surprise some, but I become totally intuitively reactionary, and I assure these surprised people that I react much faster and smoother than if I were consciously watching and trying to actively anticipate hazards. Another oddity is, after I come out the other side of that road, I often cannot remember doing entire sections of it. Anyone that knows the Akatarawas will understand, you don't get through it over 200 times unscathed just by blind luck. Yet, I'd never attempt to teach that technique for the simple reason, it would be impossible, not to mention irresponsible and dangerous to even try to do so.
I should mention that I'm ridiculously analytical learning new techniques (re-playing them time and time again through my mind after each ride) and I constantly work on them until perfected and they become 2nd nature. I believe that is the only reason I can call on these techniques while I'm in my "zone". I do not actively attempt to get into this zone, it is just something that either happens, or does not, (and only once ever on the race track funnily enough). So my post goes against many others definition of what this zone is, and where it is most likely to occur. Which brings me back to my first sentence. "My opinion on these zones, is they are near indefinable, unique to each person and unteachable".

[Katman]

"My opinion on these zones, is they are near indefinable, unique to each person and unteachable".

Amen.

And furthermore, trying to teach it creates way more danger than it offers to avoid.

[sugilite:Me]

And furthermore, trying to teach it creates way more danger than it offers to avoid.

Yes, I 100% agree.