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Thread: Zxr600

  1. #1
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    Zxr600

    So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle
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    Quote Originally Posted by scracha View Post
    So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?
    Why bother

    How about an H2 engine in a ZXR 400 frame now yer talkin
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    Quote Originally Posted by scracha View Post
    So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?
    Duncan is running one this season in Posties cuzzie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scracha View Post
    So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?
    As close as anybody in NZ got, was Tony Mcmurdo,who made a carbon fibre chassis & ran a
    ZZR600 motor, was quite trick back then
    "The road to Hell is really grippy with loads of run off & some wicked lefthanders"

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    Quote Originally Posted by scracha View Post
    So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?
    Why, is there a problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bistard View Post
    As close as anybody in NZ got, was Tony Mcmurdo,who made a carbon fibre chassis & ran a
    ZZR600 motor, was quite trick back then
    He'd have been clever as the ZZR600 never came out until 1990. Maybe he used a late GPZ600R motor (a.k.a. ZX600 A5) or the higher powered GPX600R motor back then (a.k.a. zx600c)? GPX motor around 85 ponies vs early ZZR600D motor around 95 ponies.

    Quote Originally Posted by malcy25 View Post
    Why, is there a problem?
    I think there's a problem if nobody had done it by 1989, as per rule 25.2.2. If someone could clarify it was done (like the FZR400/600 and CBR400/600) then I wouldn't mind getting one myself as I have a CBR600 motor sat begging for a nice beefy frame with wider 17" wheels, 4 pot brakes, bigger front disks and upside down forks.

    Seems a bit strange, since I got told I couldn't put a ZXR400 front end on my CBR400 "cos nobody put ZXR400 front ends on other 400's back then"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle
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    Quote Originally Posted by scracha View Post
    I think there's a problem if nobody had done it by 1989, as per rule 25.2.2. If someone could clarify it was done (like the FZR400/600 and CBR400/600) then I wouldn't mind getting one myself as I have a CBR600 motor sat begging for a nice beefy frame with wider 17" wheels, 4 pot brakes, bigger front disks and upside down forks.
    Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine.

    So no one, ever, put a different engine into a bike prior to 1989?

    Okay, being a bit on the nose, but the rule is more than a little interpretive. The primary aim is to for example, not turn your RZ350 tube frame into a beam frame by welding in a whole lotta metal and removing all the old redundant tubes, or similar type mods. By all means, reqrite the rule and submit a remit if you think the gap could be closed up.

    BUT sitting here, we are not privy to what The owner has provided as proof. He may well have done his homework, delivered to the appropriate people and it's up to him to share with anyone else. Those within the class and finish races are all eligible to protest. I have seen protests in pre 82 accepted and held up at major meetings, so it does happen.

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    As far as I know he asked the question before he started the build so must have been given the nod.

    The more competition the better anyway... speaking of which, ain't seen you on the track for a long while Stevie - come out and have a play at the last round of AMCC in a couple of weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by malcy25 View Post
    Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine.

    So no one, ever, put a different engine into a bike prior to 1989?

    Okay, being a bit on the nose, but the rule is more than a little interpretive. The primary aim is to for example, not turn your RZ350 tube frame into a beam frame by welding in a whole lotta metal and removing all the old redundant tubes, or similar type mods. By all means, reqrite the rule and submit a remit if you think the gap could be closed up.

    BUT sitting here, we are not privy to what The owner has provided as proof. He may well have done his homework, delivered to the appropriate people and it's up to him to share with anyone else. Those within the class and finish races are all eligible to protest. I have seen protests in pre 82 accepted and held up at major meetings, so it does happen.
    The problem is we could be heading down the slippery slope where a bike is built by using best components that were available. e.g. motor from one make, forks from another, brakes another make, frame etc etc. Ending with a bike that is nothing like what was raced in the day. I believe USD forks could only be used on the ZXR400s as that was standard.
    Could everyone fit zxr 400 USD to what ever they race? The class would look quite odd.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Smith View Post
    where a bike is built by using best components that were available. e.g. motor from one make, forks from another, brakes another make, frame etc etc
    Pete, being devils advocate, Isn't that what our F1 / F2 / F3 classes were about? Building the best out and out race bike you could, while proddie classes were the stock standard stuff? Ok F1 was more likely to use aftermarket stuff and not OEM parts, but referring to Tony McMurdo's bikes, he built a pretty competitive F3 bike in the day using a VFR750 frame and GPz500 motor, In about 88 it was being used.

    Tony's ZZR600 carbon bike was about 91/92 cos he was doing meetings I was at at Ruapuna, Bay Park etc when I was on my RS. (you may have been there also?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Smith View Post
    I believe USD forks could only be used on the ZXR400s as that was standard. Could everyone fit zxr 400 USD to what ever they race? The class would look quite odd.
    Exactly. The fork rule stipulates USD where OEM fitment and to allow for someone turning up with Lucinelli's 851 Corsa etc which had period Ohlins. So no ZXR forks should not be appearing everywhere. Truth be told are ZXR400 forks much chop? Probably not compared to OW01 forks which are reputed to be the best RWU forks ever produced on a Jap bike and if you got your hands on a set, could be fitted to any pre 89 bike.

    As I mentioned in response to Steve's post, now there is more experience with it, those in the class may like to start thinking about what they would like that rule to look like to close it up, and get a remit in, but it does need to be done in a manner that does not exclude what was done in the day or the aftermarket stuff that was available (bloody hard).

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    Quote Originally Posted by malcy25 View Post
    Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine.

    So no one, ever, put a different engine into a bike prior to 1989?
    Yep....they did. They did CBR 6/4's and they did FZR 6/4's. I'm asking if anyone did a ZXR4/CBR6 combo.

    Quote Originally Posted by malcy25 View Post
    Okay, being a bit on the nose, but the rule is more than a little interpretive. The primary aim is to for example, not turn your RZ350 tube frame into a beam frame by welding in a whole lotta metal and removing all the old redundant tubes, or similar type mods. By all means, reqrite the rule and submit a remit if you think the gap could be closed up.
    I thought the primary aim was to as much as possible, reproduce what was raced in 1989. Spirit of the era and all that

    Quote Originally Posted by malcy25 View Post
    BUT sitting here, we are not privy to what The owner has provided as proof. He may well have done his homework, delivered to the appropriate people and it's up to him to share with anyone else. Those within the class and finish races are all eligible to protest. I have seen protests in pre 82 accepted and held up at major meetings, so it does happen.
    So if I were to build the exact same bike, I'd have to do my own research and find the exact same proof? Seems a bit odd. Surely I could just ask the posties assoc if it's eligible?

    Quote Originally Posted by sharky View Post
    As far as I know he asked the question before he started the build so must have been given the nod.
    The more competition the better anyway... speaking of which, ain't seen you on the track for a long while Stevie - come out and have a play at the last round of AMCC in a couple of weeks.
    Thanks for the invite Sharky. Just getting Frankencane all sorted again. Few wee niggles to iron out...namely both SETS of front disks are warped. Did superbike school thing last weekend and by gawd I was rusty lol. I'll wait until I get Billy's bill and do some trackdays again before I get beaten by your ZXR450 turbo again .

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Smith View Post
    The problem is we could be heading down the slippery slope where a bike is built by using best components that were available. e.g. motor from one make, forks from another, brakes another make, frame etc etc. Ending with a bike that is nothing like what was raced in the day. I believe USD forks could only be used on the ZXR400s as that was standard.
    Could everyone fit zxr 400 USD to what ever they race? The class would look quite odd.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by malcy25 View Post
    Pete, being devils advocate, Isn't that what our F1 / F2 / F3 classes were about? Building the best out and out race bike you could,
    They were. But to my mind, that's not what Post Classics iss about. It's about reproducing the best bike that was raced back then and having FUN. I could be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by malcy25 View Post
    while proddie classes were the stock standard stuff? Ok F1 was more likely to use aftermarket stuff and not OEM parts, but referring to Tony McMurdo's bikes, he built a pretty competitive F3 bike in the day using a VFR750 frame and GPz500 motor, In about 88 it was being used.
    If there's some super hot weird combo out there that was used back then that destroyed all in its path, then it's all good to recreate it now.

    Quote Originally Posted by malcy25 View Post
    As I mentioned in response to Steve's post, now there is more experience with it, those in the class may like to start thinking about what they would like that rule to look like to close it up, and get a remit in, but it does need to be done in a manner that does not exclude what was done in the day or the aftermarket stuff that was available (bloody hard).
    Manufactured needs to be changed to something like "publically available" or even "sold in dealerships". Who knows if Kawasaki had a ZZR600 or Honda had a CBR600F2 manufactured and in testing in 1989? I believe Yamaha were playing with a 28 valve head and settled on 20 valves for the fizzy thou.

    "Modifications proven to have been used during the period"........ wee bit ambiguous. Should be tightened. How about :-
    "Combinations of modifications proven to have been raced during the period"

    To be honest, I'd also love to see wets, warmers and slicks banned from the class (maybe after 12 months notice). Pump fuel only too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickha
    Fuck off, cheese has no place in pies
    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle
    i would could and can, put a fat fuck down with a bit of brass.

  13. #13
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    [
    Who knows if Kawasaki had a ZZR600..... in 1989? .[/QUOTE]

    There already is a ZZR600 racing in pre'89s. Raced him at Paeroa.
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    Steve

    Excellent reponse, I like where you are thinking on most of it. Especially "They were. But to my mind, that's not what Post Classics iss about. It's about reproducing the best bike that was raced back then and having FUN. I could be wrong." I wish more people had that view.

    But there are little gotchas though in there that you have to think about. E.g., Pump fuel , what about all the TZ's, RS's and god knows what else etc that need 100+ octane or Avgas etc and never ran on anything else.....what does "pump fuel" mean. I've used avgas for years in my strokers and it came out of a "pump"

    Re Duncan's work to get a bike approved - he's done the home work - it's HIS knowledge / IP. It's up to YOU to prove your bike is eligible and this is as it is written in the rule book.

    primary - aim of rule 25.2.2 - see you and I interpret it differently which means that it could be tightened. hence my suggestion that you to close that ambiguity. My view is that the underlying rules are all about what you read into that rule. I read that rule to mean as per my suggestion about creating a beam frame RZ350. Right now you can only work with what is there.

    Stick your suggestion in, or send it to kevin Grey via the posties website (better). I'd ditch the pump fuel only bit, but the other suggestion around dating etc has merit and I have previoulsy suggested that the Aussie datiung process is adopted (which is similar). The mods suggestion looks good too. The big thing you need to watch for is that this is not production racing and not all bikes are production bikes.

    keep going and get your bike out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Smith View Post
    [
    Who knows if Kawasaki had a ZZR600..... in 1989? .
    There already is a ZZR600 racing in pre'89s. Raced him at Paeroa.[/QUOTE]

    And I've raced one at the vic club. Like CBR400's with a gull arms and later ZXR400's racing in Pre 89 , it doesn't mean the bike was actually eligible.....just that nobody gave a shit If the guy had been had the pointy end of the field it would have been noticed.


    How about pump fuel on the 4 strokes then?



    The 2 strokes need all the help they can get anyway
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickha
    Fuck off, cheese has no place in pies
    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle
    i would could and can, put a fat fuck down with a bit of brass.

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