Baroness Thatcher dies overnight

[mashman]

More proof of your delusional state.

Do power cuts, four day weeks and constant strikes ring any bells in your addled melon?

They do ring bells... more so under Tory rule.

[GrayWolf]

She served a corporate agenda to privatise the world. Good riddance to the Tory whore.

When people dance in the street on news of your death, you know you've overstepped the bounds of human decency.

Yes most of whom are either Scargill-ised fuckwits, or the children thereof......... Of course the likes of good old Scargill, who with the Union movement through the 60's and 70's did more to destroy their own Industries through bullshit destructive behaviour, (because we can) and promoted a belief, in politics to be able to Govern, you had to 'court favour' (bow down) with the Unions??
And dont tell me I have no fuckin clue what I'm talking about, my Father was involved in the coal industry then, and I remember the Orgreive coking plant bullshit and the 3 day week, (middle of winter of course)..
Where was Scargill's Humanity then? Of course He and his droogies weren't responsible for the strike, picket lines, and hypothermia of the elderly with no power? Not to mention Billions in lost production. He brought down one Govt, and even though as much as it was denied in the 80's, the coal industry was fucked,, over production, no profit, low prices, Union that was determined to keep it all going, which was only going to cost the country BILLIONS...... No Scargill met his match, and good fucking riddance to the Communist twat.... Didnt see Scargill starving did you? Never saw his face looking pinched, drawn, tired and malnourished?? Ever thought of that little factoid??

Maggie was no 'Saint' but at least she was up front, honest in her plans, said what she was going to do, and DID IT.....
Maybe she went to far, I would never disagree with that in the end..... Poll Tax etc... but her stand on Europe?? Look at the shit state the EEC is in now... Gonna tell me the 'Witch' was wrong?? Small minded people will never see the bigger picture.. that's why they are called the 'masses'....or sheeple...... because they never question the deeper reasons.... and why Polititians, and the likes of Scargill, or at worst example; Hitler, can manipulate words to lead them in the chosen direction. Baaaaaaaaa!!!!

[GrayWolf]

Well said Berries. I remember as a kid being in a house with no food, power cuts, huge cues outside the dole office, riots accross several parts of the country, whole communities becoming destitute due to businesses closing down left right and centre and people go on about how great Maggie was. Did you live there and endure the hardship as a direct resut of her policies? It boils my piss!

Yes I did, not as a kid but as a working, tax paying, business owning, house buying... obviously Tory scumbag in you eyes, son of a coal Industry Father, who as a kid REMEMBERS the Scargill driven miners strike of the early 70's where the elderly died of cold, industry lost Billions in production, Rolling nationwide power cuts, being in a freezing cold... (no thats a lie, may dad was in coal.. we had a coal fire ha fuckin ha!!!)
I remember whole communities, the whole country, suffering due to ARTHUR fuckin SCARGILL..........

it boils MY piss too!!!

[GrayWolf]

They do ring bells... more so under Tory rule.

yes a sad true fact, because Labour was almost 'owned' by the Unions. if you read up on the Wilson years, the unions hand was so far up his rectum pulling the strings, if he had smiled? you'd have seen the fingers behind his mouth.... usually the Tories took a stand, so the unions did their 'strike thing',, A 'la Orgreive, which toppled the Govt. (Tory)..........

[GrayWolf]

... the fascist wanks on here will TRY and cut that to ribbons...

and the Scargill Loving commie wanks on here will always bleat about anyone doing better than them, or wanting to cut their little apron strings as a 'Facist'.....

[mashman]

yes a sad true fact, because Labour was almost 'owned' by the Unions. if you read up on the Wilson years, the unions hand was so far up his rectum pulling the strings, if he had smiled? you'd have seen the fingers behind his mouth.... usually the Tories took a stand, so the unions did their 'strike thing',, A 'la Orgreive, which toppled the Govt. (Tory)..........

I have no doubt that unions in the wrong hands could cause more damage than good. Having said that, they served a function by protecting their workers. Unfortunately they became a part of short sighted Tory policy (not saying new labour are any better by the way) i.e. hammer the miners and import "cheaper" coal so that we can get better deals with our exports. Political bollocks to support the "free market" and global business community at the expense of those who had contributed to the UK up until that point in time. I remember watching that shit on TV, still young, but old enough to understand what it meant for the family's. Not long after that I was shipped off to the country and forgot all about it til Poll tax time. I guess we were damned if we did and damned if we didn't... although I wish we hadn't ruined the community's.

[BoristheBiter]

I have no doubt that unions in the wrong hands could cause more damage than good. Having said that, they served a function by protecting their workers. Unfortunately they became a part of short sighted Tory policy (not saying new labour are any better by the way) i.e. hammer the miners and import "cheaper" coal so that we can get better deals with our exports. Political bollocks to support the "free market" and global business community at the expense of those who had contributed to the UK up until that point in time. I remember watching that shit on TV, still young, but old enough to understand what it meant for the family's. Not long after that I was shipped off to the country and forgot all about it til Poll tax time. I guess we were damned if we did and damned if we didn't... although I wish we hadn't ruined the community's.

Yep as in past tense.

The unions are only it for themselves now (well they were then to) and will pray on anyone that is gullible enough to believe their bullshit.
Has has been said you never see a poor, or hungry, union rep.
Yes there is a place for unions, but the way it was is long gone.

"free market" ? some one has to pay for someone else, as in the high NZ is great for importers shit for exporters.
If you want cheaper something has to give or if you want all the perks someone has to pay for it. Something that a lot forget.

[mashman]

Yep as in past tense.

The unions are only it for themselves now (well they were then to) and will pray on anyone that is gullible enough to believe their bullshit.
Has has been said you never see a poor, or hungry, union rep.
Yes there is a place for unions, but the way it was is long gone.

"free market" ? some one has to pay for someone else, as in the high NZ is great for importers shit for exporters.
If you want cheaper something has to give or if you want all the perks someone has to pay for it. Something that a lot forget.

Fucksake and of course the govt are in it for us ... at least the members of a union can hold their officials to account and will trry to protect their members. I'd rather have the unions ripping me off thanks. Maggie destroyed her competition, how very un-tory like... then again.

Good job the right whinge support a bottom up instead of a trickle down philosophy then. Coz it ain't the workers who get the perks. Something people conveniently ignore, amongst other things.

[BoristheBiter]

Fucksake and of course the govt are in it for us ... at least the members of a union can hold their officials to account and will trry to protect their members. I'd rather have the unions ripping me off thanks. Maggie destroyed her competition, how very un-tory like... then again.

Good job the right whinge support a bottom up instead of a trickle down philosophy then. Coz it ain't the workers who get the perks. Something people conveniently ignore, amongst other things.

????? you get to hold to account the govt at election time just like unions. (something that maggie did three times) only difference is the unions are not transparent and cannot be held to account, If they fail at their job others suffer and they walk away knowing the still have a job.

But no perks aye you must be in the wrong union.

[mashman]

????? you get to hold to account the govt at election time just like unions. (something that maggie did three times) only difference is the unions are not transparent and cannot be held to account, If they fail at their job others suffer and they walk away knowing the still have a job.

But no perks aye you must be in the wrong union.

That's what I said, although unions will act on behalf of an employee against an employer where the govt shaft everyone equally.

Pah, I don't think the computer workers union ever existed in the UK. I think Oz had one. Last thing they'd need is for IT to strike. The world would grind to a halt.

[GrayWolf]

Fucksake and of course the govt are in it for us ... at least the members of a union can hold their officials to account and will trry to protect their members. I'd rather have the unions ripping me off thanks. Maggie destroyed her competition, how very un-tory like... then again.

Good job the right whinge support a bottom up instead of a trickle down philosophy then. Coz it ain't the workers who get the perks. Something people conveniently ignore, amongst other things.

mate, when I left school in '74 I started an apprenticeship in a 'closed shop' Factory... Yes there was a time in the 20's-30's that the Union's truly did need the tactics they used, and the tactic's used by Bosses were often worse. However, after WW2, things started to change noticeably, they did get good working conditions, they did get reasonable wages, that is without question.... BUT if Industry CANNOT make a good profit? it stagnates due to lack of re-investment. And yes we saw that management can do just that (British bike Industry for example)..
However as I was 'young and stupid'? I went to few Union meetings at work.. the Rhetoric being spouted was,, 'keep ya foot on managements neck's.. Dont give the bastards an inch etc etc....... Now 39 years later I am a Union member again... it has benefits for my job in the event of an incident, that I will fully admit. However all those years have past,,, and do you know what/ the first 'Union called meting'? Yup, "keep ya foot on their necks (management) dont give the bastards an inch......... fuck me, how times have changed!!! NOT

[jonbuoy]

That's what I said, although unions will act on behalf of an employee against an employer where the govt shaft everyone equally.

Pah, I don't think the computer workers union ever existed in the UK. I think Oz had one. Last thing they'd need is for IT to strike. The world would grind to a halt.

Not so sure about that- instead of bouncing a dozen emails backwards and forwards we might remember to pick up the telephone and sort it out in a two minute conversation.

Anyone worked in a shipyard? You better make sure you don't undo a steel bolt - that's a fitters job, don't take down that wooden panel - that's a chippies job, don't cut that cable tie - that's a sparkies job your taking away. A day wasted to replace a unit which should have taken an hour tops.

[mashman]

mate, when I left school in '74 I started an apprenticeship in a 'closed shop' Factory... Yes there was a time in the 20's-30's that the Union's truly did need the tactics they used, and the tactic's used by Bosses were often worse. However, after WW2, things started to change noticeably, they did get good working conditions, they did get reasonable wages, that is without question.... BUT if Industry CANNOT make a good profit? it stagnates due to lack of re-investment. And yes we saw that management can do just that (British bike Industry for example)..
However as I was 'young and stupid'? I went to few Union meetings at work.. the Rhetoric being spouted was,, 'keep ya foot on managements neck's.. Dont give the bastards an inch etc etc....... Now 39 years later I am a Union member again... it has benefits for my job in the event of an incident, that I will fully admit. However all those years have past,,, and do you know what/ the first 'Union called meting'? Yup, "keep ya foot on their necks (management) dont give the bastards an inch......... fuck me, how times have changed!!! NOT

... fighting fire with fire eh. One wants to keep jobs, the other wants to maximise profit... hmmmm, decisions decisions. Are we any better for not having the unions? I'm going for a no. Me maw was union rep at a place she worked and other than being a Tory, she was respected and did her job well for those who she represented. No doubt there were those in other places of work who had to play hardball against hard nosed employers. As ya say, time have changed

Not so sure about that- instead of bouncing a dozen emails backwards and forwards we might remember to pick up the telephone and sort it out in a two minute conversation.

Anyone worked in a shipyard? You better make sure you don't undo a steel bolt - that's a fitters job, don't take down that wooden panel - that's a chippies job, don't cut that cable tie - that's a sparkies job your taking away. A day wasted to replace a unit which should have taken an hour tops.

Or even talk to yer rep face to face. Doh, not so much any more.

The govt seems to be taking up that slack... after all you need to be licensed to scratch yer arse these days and they're all dying to tailor Uni course to what the workforce needs. Still though, employees are two a penny, cut them loose as and when and worse case scenario is that the ex-employee has money and takes it to court. Shame many don't and get discarded. Having said that though, short-term contracts do that job these days.

[Brian d marge]

I posted this in the "value of money " but on thinking it also applies here

Stephen
If you want some reading , this is a rough guide to what happened ( from my bookmarks and yes if you want me to summarise it I can )

please read from top to bottom. notice game theory at work , and it is still being used in our hospitals and government departments today!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggar_thy_neighbor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom ( game theory )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolationism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2...k_market_crash

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation

Yes, the unions weren’t helping but in Britain’s class ridden structure they were probably the only chance ALSO , if you disenfranchise people through what ever means , you will get an " OH FK IT attitude " as seen here in NZ and that exactly what you got ... born and bred in the east end I am .

Britain , I think, needed money and opening up the financial markets was a quick and dirty method but that has only helped a few ;

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/05/uk-m17.html

I know its a commie web site but its close enough to show the point

Finally

Big mac index is used to compare price parity between american dollar and your local currency and shows if the currency is under or over valued


Stephen

[Brian d marge]

And I can also say

the NZ Meat workers union are a bunch of self serving back stabbing money grabbing , Holden commodore driving useless ,,,( you can fill in this space )

they are letting a whole lot of good people down , people that really do need their help

this is from first hand , behind the scenes knowledge

Stephen