Baroness Thatcher dies overnight

[Berries]

Anybody know what Thatcher spent the proceeds of assets sales on?

Dole cheques and the YTS.

[Brian d marge]

Fiscal Outlook1
$ billion
June years Actual Estimate Forecast
1995/96 1996/97 1997/98
Total revenue 35.1 35.1 35.7 36.7 38.6
Ratio to GDP (%)7 38.6 37.2 36.1 35.0 34.8
Total expenses 31.7 33.0 34.6 35.4 36.7
34.9 34.9 35.0 33.8 33.2
Ratio to GDP (%)
Operating Balance 3.3 2.4 1.5 1.9 2.6
Ratio to GDP (%) 3.6 2.6 1.5 1.8 2.3
Net worth 3.3 6.0 7.6 9.5 12.1
Ratio to GDP (%) 3.7 6.4 7.6 9.0 10.9
Gross Crown debt 41.5 34.8 34.3 33.8 32.5
Ratio to GDP (%) 45.7 36.9 34.7 32.3 29.4
Net Crown debt 28.6 25.6 25.2 24.3 22.7
Ratio to GDP (%)31.5 27.1 25.5 23.2 20.5
1 Economic forecasts were finalised on 21 May 1997, fiscal projections on 10 June 1997.
2 Production-based measure (March years).
3 HLFS unemployment as a percentage of the labour force, seasonally adjusted, March quarter.

the government was ;

The 45th New Zealand Parliament continued. Government was The National Party, led by Jim Bolger, in coalition with New Zealand First, led by Winston Peters.

as for Debt .....hmmmm


See below , as it doesnt want to insert !

Stephen

from the budget releases Nz treasury 1997 to 2012 brought to you by facts-r-us

[Swoop]

can ya point me towards the info on this one , I should really get familiar with the spending in the 1990 2000 period

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/t...99s-rail-dream

The train set would probably not have been broken if it had not been given to private enterprise to run.

The train set was asset stripped by the aussie owners and then sold off since they could not get it to make a profit.
The price paid is the major issue, as Cullen should have brought it for a pittance, but he did not... Even letting the company go bust and purchasing it from the receivers would have been cheaper (but not good practice).
Wasting a billion NZ Roubles on something valued at 400mil?

I hate to think about what the Lunatic Fringe would waste money on if they ever become a government in their own right.

[mashman]

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/t...99s-rail-dream


The train set was asset stripped by the aussie owners and then sold off since they could not get it to make a profit.
The price paid is the major issue, as Cullen should have brought it for a pittance, but he did not... Even letting the company go bust and purchasing it from the receivers would have been cheaper (but not good practice).
Wasting a billion NZ Roubles on something valued at 400mil?

I hate to think about what the Lunatic Fringe would waste money on if they ever become a government in their own right.

Is that after the nats revaluation of the assets? Same thing they did to back up claims that ACC was in trouble?

[BoristheBiter]

Oh! that explains it then.

What's your's

[Robert Taylor]

This thread is about Maggie! Now what would Britain be like now had James Callaghan been re-elected in 79? Food for thought?

[Brian d marge]

This thread is about Maggie! Now what would Britain be like now had James Callaghan been re-elected in 79? Food for thought?

Hasnt someone told you

she died a few weeks back , some were happy some were sad ,,,then we moved on

Stephen

ps , looking st the budgets, i cant see ant evidence of the train set, there is mention of increased transport costs in 2009 , but they are more concerned with the rise in super

Stephen

[Hinny]

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/t...r’s-rail-dream


The train set was asset stripped by the aussie owners and then sold off since they could not get it to make a profit.
The price paid is the major issue, as Cullen should have brought it for a pittance, but he did not... Even letting the company go bust and purchasing it from the receivers would have been cheaper (but not good practice).
Wasting a billion NZ Roubles on something valued at 400mil?

I hate to think about what the Lunatic Fringe would waste money on if they ever become a government in their own right.

So the Govt. didn't pay a billion dollars for Kiwi Rail it paid $690,000.
The assett stripping that I know of - selling off all the land around railway stations, wasn't undertaken by the Aussie owners.
What assett stripping are you talking about?

Well it's bad enough that the lunatic fringe are in there with the the majority that they have.
Selling off State assetts and spending a quarter of the early, optimistic, estimated sales proceeds on building a new prison doesn't make much sense to me.
Nor does wasting money upgrading roads, bridges etc. to enable 52 ton trucks to ply the roads. (in competition with rail)

Stephen Joyce's assessment shows the Nats. simplistic measure of success is growth. It's not a very good measure of well-offness.
Increasing our population would probably result in 'growth'. The end game in that scenario is dire. Look at Thatcher's Bloody Britain. Or India etc.

[Usarka]

Coming from the Guardian ( a left leaning newspaper not even good enough for toilet paper) that is of course what you'd expect.

Its also worth mentioning that Harold Wilson ( a two time Labour priminister ) closed down more coalmines during his two tenures than did Maggie. Where is the vilification against his name? Even he recognised it was a twilight industry that was becoming economically unviable.

For me Maggie is second only to God and I will always have fond memories of her. And God is an Anglican.

I'm glad you mentioned god because that post makes you sound like a religous fanatic.

I heard a good interview of Sir Max Hastings (war historian/journalist) on RNZ the other day. He was an admirer of thatcher, but had some realistic/sensible views on the appropriateness of the public funeral. Go to 10:50 (or listen to the whole thing!) http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/pr...x-hastings.asx

[Hinny]

as for Debt .....hmmmm


See below , as it doesnt want to insert !

Stephen

from the budget releases Nz treasury 1997 to 2012 brought to you by facts-r-us

I think the actual debt is up to 33% of GDP.
Their forecast was actually a little optimistic even though looking at the graph one might think it was pretty pessimistic.

[Swoop]

the Govt. didn't pay a billion dollars for Kiwi Rail it paid $690,000.

The aditional investment required in the rail system was believed to be a billion. Bringing things back up to standard. I wonder if the Gisborne section of line will ever be rebuilt?

The Labour government bought TranzRail from Toll on July 1 2008 for $690m. A provisional valuation in the government financial statements in September 2008 put the value at $442m.

Today Transport Minister Steven Joyce said the final valuation by PriceWaterhouseCoopers was $388.29m.

A Treasury report said a fair value for KiwiRail at the purchase date would have been $369.54m.

"This results in a final financial loss on acquisition of Toll NZ Ltd of $320m," the report said.

In Parliament Mr Joyce said a further $210m was spent on loans and $90m on operational subsidies.

"It's quite obvious to anyone looking at this transaction that the previous government significantly overpaid for KiwiRail and paying that much handicaps its future," he said.

The public was not told about the large financial burden including the backlog of needed expenditure before the purchase was made, he said.

Progressive MP Jim Anderton pointed out that a National government had sold the rail in the first place and it had been stripped by the buyers and had subsequently suffered from lack of investment.

Mr Joyce said that was ancient history.

"No one in their right mind would pay the kind of money for KiwiRail that the previous government paid."

The previous government said $1b was needed to bring the rail back up to standard. Mr Joyce said any investments would need to be sensible.

[oldrider]

Trying to reason with socialists is like trying to teach pig's to fly ... it isn't ever going to happen and it only agitates and excites the pig's!

[BoristheBiter]

Trying to reason on a KB thread is like trying to teach pig's to fly ... it isn't ever going to happen and it only agitates and excites the pig's!

Fixed that for ya.

[Hinny]

[QUOTE=Swoop;1130537889] [I]The Labour government bought TranzRail from Toll on July 1 2008 for $690m. ...

Mr Joyce said any investments would need to be sensible/QUOTE]

And spending millions on upgrading roads etc. for 52 ton trucks to operate in competition with the railways is sensible?
Not to mention the ongoing maintenance costs operation of said trucks will cause. Tote that up and add in projected costs as you have with the railways and you are looking at billions.
The loss of human life is another major factor.
One report I read said trucks were involved in the majority of road fatalities in NZ. Another said that a spot check campaign on trucks revealed 40% of them had substandard brakes.
52 ton trucks require a huge increase in braking distance over the trucks presently allowed.
All this has been previously discussed as well.

Reporting Stephen Joyce as though his words were doctrine is naive. He is a skillfull politician, bright but misguided and often disingenuous in the extreme.
The same can be said of Nick Smith. Do you consider it acceptable to quote him as though his words were gospel as well? ACC ? ? ?
I suspect Joyce is merely rehashing the lines provided by Tony Friedlander to justify the changing of the law to suit his members.
Self interest above public good and at the expense of the public.
Public expenditure for private profit is something this govt. is good at.

The discussion of the railways purchase has been well done and dusted.
To promote road transport is to ignore the the tenuous nature of fuel supply and global warming among a raft of other considerations
About as sensible as wanting Auckland to grow and build more motorways to allow the punters to commute. To commute to their service industry jobs looking after each other. Only the short-sighted would consider that a sensible option.
FFS if they want societies like that why don't they just fuck off to countries that already have that setup.
Don't wreck what we have.
The damage this non-sensical expenditure will create will be irreperable. To argue that we have to accept this as unavoidable is head in the sand mentality. Governments are supposed to operate for the good of its citizens. Not for the good of foreign corporations. Freedom / Serfdom. Take your pick.
Who wouldn't want to go back to the Forty hour week, Only one parent working, 1/4 acre sections, Sport on Saturdays, Family holidays with room to move, Clean rivers etc.
Where are we headed?
What future do the Nats. see for New Zealanders?
The Mainland cheese ad showing the industrialisation of a Southern landscape could have been a representation of the Muldoon govt. plan for Otago.
Their stated objective was to create another Ruhr Valley. Muldoon famously took a German industrialist he was in talks with over this plan to an Anzac day service. The man in question was a former SS officer. Did not go down well.
Is a plan like that what people want for NZ?
Would create jobs. Would create growth.
Would make some people rich.
Would utilise an unused resource - brown lignite coal.
Is this a desirable future for NZ?

[BoristheBiter]

To promote road transport is to ignore the the tenuous nature of fuel supply and global warming among a raft of other considerations

You do know they've stopped calling it global warming.