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Thread: Pro Rider training

  1. #1
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    Pro Rider training

    Here is a copy of my blog i have just psoted on my website, I think it is relevant to those considering training.

    On Sunday I attended the Pro Rider training course in Albany. This course is run by Pro rider who is the designated provider of subsidized training here in Auckland. This is done through ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation) and Auckland Transport. The cost to me personally was $50 with the remaining amount of $200 being subsidised.

    Although I have done a lot of training over the last few years and have become an Observer for IAM, I am always open to learn more and improve my skills.

    I registered for the course a couple of weeks before the day and the returning email told me I would be sent an email out the week before confirming venue etc. I did end up chasing up the information and eventually got it five days before. I was surprised to see that even though I put done my level as "Experienced"..this course catered to all levels. I really wondered how they were going to manage this.

    When I arrived on Sunday I was again surprised to see just 4 instructors for 16 riders. I had expected a better ratio of instructors to riders .

    The debrief consisted of a brief discussion on shoulder checks and road rules, before we were shown pictures of where to position our bike on corners. There was no mention of the widely accepted I.P.S.G.A system of motorcycle roadcraft and control (Information, Position, Speed, Gear and Acceleration). This surprised me as it is one of the fundamentals of road-craft training. TUG was only briefly mentioned. (TUG is Take (information), Use (information), Give (information).

    The five learners went off by themselves with another instructor and someone else to assist who had no qualifications to be teaching. (I know the person and skill level) This now left three instructors and 11 riders.

    We initially rode out west where we would complete several circuits of the same road during the course of the day. My previous doubts as to the level and skill of the instructors began to be raised when I witnessed one of them continually fail to indicate through three roundabouts then ride through roadworks with a designated 30 km/hr speed limit at 70 km/hr . I questioned him and he said that he was doing 50 kms per hour...moot point really. Speed signs at road works are there for a reason.... didn't appreciate my bike getting showered with new gravel either.

    I was beginning to get the impression that the level of training I have been getting and was expecting was not going to happen today. In fact, it appeared that the more numbers that were being pushed through the better, with no real consideration of the training quality provided. Important topics were ignored or simple brushed over.Braking was covered with a three minute video at lunch as well as counter steering. No demonstration was given.

    The day dragged on with very little feed back to riders. Roadside debriefs consisted of short videos and more pictures to look at. It was one thing to talk about stuff, it is another thing to be taught it, showed it, and given time to put it into practise.

    I was further alarmed when being overtaken buy a guy on a 250cc motorbike through the same 30 km/hr work zone I have just mentioned, showering my bike with stones and showing a blatant disregard for other road users. To rub salt in to the wound, none of the instructors mentioned it to him or confronted him about it.

    Further frustration arose when I saw that the Pro rider leader was riding a bike that was not registered to be on the road. I was informed that it was, but again it is a moot point. The bike as it stood is illegal for not displaying a current registration and should not be ridden on the road until it does. This all coming from some one who is supposed to be setting an example and teaching safer road craft.

    I was certainly getting frustrated at the amount of stuff that was not getting taught, or simply glossed over. And this is because the ratio of instructors to riders is too low and no proper training was ever going to happen. The majority of the day was spent practicing on the same piece of road going around corners. As the day drew to a close, I was disheartened to see three riders in front of me run compulsory stops signs. Again I think it reflects on a lack of proper instruction and a glossing over of the road rules at the beginning of the day. How after 5 1/2 hours of so called training are riders still running stop signs....something seriously is lacking in the approach taken to this training.

    By three o'clock I still had yet to receive any feedback on my riding, when I questioned this, I was told I was smooth but probably travelling too close to the centre line on left hand bends. I did mention that I get excellent visibility through the corner from there, and always give up the position for safety .....oh good he says. End of conversation.

    At the end of the ride I was given a certificate of completion, a smiley sticker on my dashboard to remind to to smile, relax and enjoy the ride, and a photocopied picture of the vanishing point.....the first time it was mentioned during the whole day. How the hell do you teach cornering with no emphasis on the vanishing point? I was also given a book on other reading material and encouraged to check out You Tube videos.

    My honest opinion is that the level of training was poor, too many riders, unskilled instructors, not enough attention given to individual riders, all the time making a lot of money....taxpayer funded money. To properly teach, demonstrate and assess someone's riding, one-on-one, or one-on-two coaching is the maximum you should expect. The old adage "People don't know what they don't know"..certainly rings true with me today.

    I make no apologies for the bluntness of this blog, I have stood beside too many graves of dead bikers to stand by and see sub-standard training become the norm Regular readers will know that I am unashamedly passionate about motorcycle safety. Who is auditing these trainers, who is checking that what is being taught is of a high standard? Who is checking that tax money and ACC levies is being spent wisely?

    ACC and Auckland Transport seriously need to assess where they are going with motorcycle training which measurably delivers value and high quality outcomes. It makes me thankful of the training path which I embarked upon nearly 2 years ago.

  2. #2
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    Well said Roger, if that is how it was, then the instructor/s really need to listen to the feedback they receive (good or bad) and work with it.

    Alot of criticism there and this bit is of particular concern ''Pro rider leader was riding a bike that was not registered to be on the road''

  3. #3
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    Doesn't bode well for Prorider. Perhaps take up your concerns with the owner.
    "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion"



  4. #4
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    16 riders? WTF thats $4000 they made. Epic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    I was hit by one such driver while remaining in the view of their mirror.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzspokes View Post
    16 riders? WTF thats $4000 they made. Epic.
    You really have no idea what's involved in running a business do you?

  6. #6
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    I presume you shared your concerns with them before posting your blog, if not one questions what it is you are trying to achieve. In any case, this is in complete contrast to my novice $20 course. Instructor growled at someone for not stopping at a stop sign, was anal about checking mirrors, indicating etc. We also stopped twice on approach to a corner so he could demonstrate vanishing points. 4 ppl, one instructor. We all got good (and constructive...) feedback. In the weeks leading up to the course I had begun to grow fearful riding on my bike but after the course I had some confidence again and was feeling good. I'm sorry you had a less than satisfactory experience and although I know as a newbie what I say would be taken with a grain of salt, my experience with Chris the instructor south of Auckland, was top notch.
    Becoming fearless isn't the point. That's impossible. It's learning how to control your fear, and how to be free from it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosslady View Post
    I presume you shared your concerns with them before posting your blog, if not one questions what it is you are trying to achieve. In any case, this is in complete contrast to my novice $20 course. Instructor growled at someone for not stopping at a stop sign, was anal about checking mirrors, indicating etc. We also stopped twice on approach to a corner so he could demonstrate vanishing points. 4 ppl, one instructor. We all got good (and constructive...) feedback. In the weeks leading up to the course I had begun to grow fearful riding on my bike but after the course I had some confidence again and was feeling good. I'm sorry you had a less than satisfactory experience and although I know as a newbie what I say would be taken with a grain of salt, my experience with Chris the instructor south of Auckland, was top notch.
    I was asked for rider feed back per there email and have sent them a copy of this blog.

    Many of the points I have mentioned were taken up with the instructors on the day. Including the excessive speed and illegal bike.

    Clearly your training was at a higher level than what i recieved. A per my blog, there was no instruction or demonstration of the vanishing point. Basic indication and shoulder checks were brushed over.

    I have no personal issues with any one at prorider. But i make no apoligies for forming strong views on motorcycle safety.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by raftn View Post
    I was asked for rider feed back per there email and have sent them a copy of this blog.

    Many of the points I have mentioned were taken up with the instructors on the day. Including the excessive speed and illegal bike.

    Clearly your training was at a higher level than what i recieved. A per my blog, there was no instruction or demonstration of the vanishing point. Basic indication and shoulder checks were brushed over.

    I have no personal issues with any one at prorider. But i make no apoligies for forming strong views on motorcycle safety.

    Illegal bike? please do tell? bald tyres?

    i want to do one of these courses to see what they are like, im an ex london Met Police rider and i dont expect super advanced stuff for $50 or even $200 but if they are helping the majority of people then i can only be a good thing? But alas, im in the wrong region.....again.
    'Giggling nervously in the face of oncoming traffic'

  9. #9
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    Very disappointing to here raftn. I was keen to do one of these courses by prorider as Im keen to learn and even recommended to a mate that has just been riding for 18 months as I thought it would be beneficial. That sux I hope they review their practises

  10. #10
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    Did the same course on South Auckland on Saturday, here's my 2 cents.

    Numbers were about the same, there were 9 in the group I was in with one instructor and one assistant instructor. Same format, a theory session followed by a ride around a loop, then a stop for more theory /discussion (and lunch at one point), then repeated with different topics covered each time.

    While on the rides the instructors took turns following each rider or having you follow them, then gave some feedback at the next stop. Roadworks were specifically included for experience riding on loose surfaces.

    There were so many topics covered that I had to sit down and make notes when I got home, here are some of them in no particular order: braking, safety /stability / visibility, things to check on your bike, looking where you want to go, counter steering, positioning for corners, watching for the vanishing point, practicing.

    So from my layman's perspective, I got a lot out of it. Ended up doing around 225 kms on the day including the trip down and back from central Auckland.

    I'm in no position to evaluate either the course or the instructors from a professional standpoint, but I would still recommend it to others.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryhard View Post
    Very disappointing to here raftn. I was keen to do one of these courses by prorider as Im keen to learn and even recommended to a mate that has just been riding for 18 months as I thought it would be beneficial. That sux I hope they review their practises
    Dude, don't let one persons experience put you off! Do it yourself and decide, for yourself. Not saying the OP is wrong, I wasn't there but I had a good experience. It can't be all bad all of the time and it would be a pity for you to not take up this subsidised course.
    Becoming fearless isn't the point. That's impossible. It's learning how to control your fear, and how to be free from it.

  12. #12
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    I also remember him growling (that's my nice way of saying sorta getting told off) for the 3 others crossing onto the wrong lane when turning into a side street. He also made mention of my "dancing" feet said I took too long to get my feet up after a stop (I put both down, even on a hill!) and surely my boots will be worn, looked, nope they weren't/aren't, nyah nyah nyah lol. Chris also brought his iPad with an app that showed different types of road scenarios I.e. roundabouts, multilane streets I.e. motorways etc. to help explain road positioning it was awesome wish I could remember what it was.
    Becoming fearless isn't the point. That's impossible. It's learning how to control your fear, and how to be free from it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosslady View Post
    Dude, don't let one persons experience put you off! Do it yourself and decide, for yourself. Not saying the OP is wrong, I wasn't there but I had a good experience. It can't be all bad all of the time and it would be a pity for you to not take up this subsidised course.
    This guy is a IAM trained observer. My guess is he knows what he is talking about and would pick up on a lot more than a new rider.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    I was hit by one such driver while remaining in the view of their mirror.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzspokes View Post
    This guy is a IAM trained observer. My guess is he knows what he is talking about and would pick up on a lot more than a new rider.
    So what your saying is because of his experience from hereon no one should bother, they're better off doing nothing rather than going on this course? I'm sorry but bullocks, I make up my own mind, I don't let others do it for me.
    Becoming fearless isn't the point. That's impossible. It's learning how to control your fear, and how to be free from it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosslady View Post
    So what your saying is because of his experience from hereon no one should bother, they're better off doing nothing rather than going on this course? I'm sorry but bullocks, I make up my own mind, I don't let others do it for me.
    No what Im saying is that this particular course he went on had failures. So maybe they show a lack of consistency which you don't want in a training provider.

    I have been through a few trainers. One was a IAM trained observer. He highlighted more issues in 3 hours than any other training put together. I would like to go through the IAM one day when I have the time to spare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    I was hit by one such driver while remaining in the view of their mirror.

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