Whoops! Bugger!

**mikey** · 18th August 2005, 16:43

is iraqs destruction, 30,000 dead an counting, collateral damage jim?

a few not even a hundred dead in london, an there already onto killing civilians?

doesnt tally up mate , i get the picture dont fuck with england, but that type of attitude pushes "terrorist" further
a lot of deadly deadly briefcase (nuke of some type) bombs went missing at end of from russia in late 1900s, terrosits + money = nuke + london / washington = revenge!

im for the freedom fighters (terrorist included)

**James Deuce** · 18th August 2005, 16:44

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

As you can guess, I disagree. As do many of those who have actually dealt with terrorism in Europe in the 60's and 70's.
It's not a war, because there isn't a combatant state on the other side. You cannot declare war on a noun.
Georgy's 'war' has not caught Bin Laden remember.
The successful campaigns against the Red Brigade, Bader Meinhof, various US 'liberation' groups were carried out as anti-crime actions.
The greatest successes against the IRA were tracking down and arresting or eliminating the action cells.
Using investigative techniques to identify and deal with the terrorists proved much more effective than the US's current tactics of alienating most of the world's Muslims by indiscriminate killing or "collateral" damage.
Every dead innocent Iraqi creates another terrorist, ergo the US can't win. A view that they themselves are now taking, although they don't say as much. Instead they say that they are "adjusting their expectations for Iraq to a more achievable level".

George Bush, religion, and terrorism are irrelevant to the the "war" I'm talking about. There is far too much staring at the symptoms and not enough effort in examining the cause and solution. We're not on the same page, and I haven't proffered any insults. My previous post discussed facts, not opinions. The motivations and language used to describe "Humanity" need to change, the post-modern "revolution" needs to be undone, and socialist capitalism (a la the STNG universe) needs to be examined and defined as something other than lefty fantasy.

We need a global Marshall plan.

**James Deuce** · 18th August 2005, 16:50

Originally Posted by mikey

is iraqs destruction, 30,000 dead an counting, collateral damage jim?

a few not even a hundred dead in london, an there already onto killing civilians?

doesnt tally up mate , i get the picture dont fuck with england, but that type of attitude pushes "terrorist" further
a lot of deadly deadly briefcase (nuke of some type) bombs went missing at end of from russia in late 1900s, terrosits + money = nuke + london / washington = revenge!

im for the freedom fighters (terrorist included)

You've misunderstood as well. I'm not cold-hearted, blood thirsty or an advocate of war. I have tremendous respect for WWII veterans, any war veterans for that matter. Most of the ones I have met have been substantially more "human" than I am.

I've posted at length on this site about my views in regard to the current situation in Iraq. It is nothing more than economic terrorism. But obviously a man is only as good as his last post.

I'm deeply dfisappointed that people have been unable to see that all I've done is researched the policy from someone who was on the ground in London, and pointed out that you cannot use war to define the good guys or the bad guys.

The issue that is causing deaths all over the world since the Industrial revolution and the Late Imperial/Colonial phase in human history has an utterly amoral root and doesn't care a whit about good or evil. It is simply our attitudes towards each other on one level and our utter contempt for history coupled with a profound inability to learn from it that has lead to the current problems and this very discussion.

**mikey** · 18th August 2005, 17:03

defintitly only as good as your last post (cant find a suitable smiley, where have they gone???) no i interepreted your last post there to mean that his killing was justified,
an i only skim read your post, an i dont know as much about the war, wars ,

but

**Lou Girardin** · 18th August 2005, 17:26

Originally Posted by Jim2

You've misunderstood as well. I'm not cold-hearted, blood thirsty or an advocate of war. I have tremendous respect for WWII veterans, any war veterans for that matter. Most of the ones I have met have been substantially more "human" than I am.

I've posted at length on this site about my views in regard to the current situation in Iraq. It is nothing more than economic terrorism. But obviously a man is only as good as his last post.

I'm deeply dfisappointed that people have been unable to see that all I've done is researched the policy from someone who was on the ground in London, and pointed out that you cannot use war to define the good guys or the bad guys.

The issue that is causing deaths all over the world since the Industrial revolution and the Late Imperial/Colonial phase in human history has an utterly amoral root and doesn't care a whit about good or evil. It is simply our attitudes towards each other on one level and our utter contempt for history coupled with a profound inability to learn from it that has lead to the current problems and this very discussion.

This, I agree with.
But your original post was something else.

**scumdog** · 18th August 2005, 17:31

It was a f...-up, why are you all not complaining about all the other 'innocents' killed in wars?
Oh, you forgot that this is a 'war' in London??? Brought there by the 'nice' people from the middle-east?

I blame the faulty training. (well, nobody else takes responsibilty for THEIR SCREW-UPS)

**James Deuce** · 18th August 2005, 17:48

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

This, I agree with.
But your original post was something else.

No it wasn't.

**Pixie** · 19th August 2005, 11:44

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

It seems that the 'accidental' shooting the Brazilian man,Menezes, in London was anything but.
Statements from Police Officer witnesses and CCTV video stills leaked to the press show that the Commissioners original statement was a pack of lies.
Menezes was not wearing heavy clothing.
He was not running, except for a few metres on the platform to catch a train.
He was not challenged by the cops.
He was selected because "he resembled one of the wanted bombers"
He sat down in the carriage, was grabbed in a bear hug by one Officer and held down in the seat while another shot him in the head.
Is there a worldwide convention among Police forces that Senior Officers must lie through their teeth when they fuck up?

Yep,and all applicants obviously have to meet the same IQ level

**Lias** · 19th August 2005, 11:55

Is there a worldwide convention among Police forces that Senior Officers must lie through their teeth when they fuck up?

It's the same in ANY brotherhood. Police, armed forces, terrorist groups, hell even gangs. These people face situations where they NEED to know that they can rely on their comrades to be covering their backs, and its only natural that this flows on from the field into the office.

**750Y** · 19th August 2005, 12:45

Originally Posted by Jim2

The thing that springs to mind for me is: Don't fuck with Great Britain.

It seems they already did, & now they're rolling on the floor laughing.
The so-called 'war against terrorism' will not be won with a gun. it will be won with a handshake.

**Lou Girardin** · 19th August 2005, 12:55

Originally Posted by 750Y

It seems they already did, & now they're rolling on the floor laughing.
The so-called 'war against terrorism' will not be won with a gun. it will be won with a handshake.

Careful, that's far too rational. But it seems to work.

**Ramius** · 19th August 2005, 13:47

I was discussing this yesterday, and if this were America the guy was shot in
A.) There would be no video tape, or there would be a video 'randomly' show up showing exactly to a T what the police said.
B.) He would be a Muslim fundamentalist
C.) He would have confronted the police, the switch in one hand, the Q'oran in the other hand spouting words from it.
D.) It was not a police officer he was sitting next to, but a little old catholic lady!

**SARGE** · 19th August 2005, 14:03

Originally Posted by Ramius

I was discussing this yesterday, and if this were America the guy was shot in
A.) There would be no video tape, or there would be a video 'randomly' show up showing exactly to a T what the police said.
B.) He would be a Muslim fundamentalist
C.) He would have confronted the police, the switch in one hand, the Q'oran in the other hand spouting words from it.
D.) It was not a police officer he was sitting next to, but a little old catholic lady!

and
E) he wouldnt have been shot just once..but riddled with 9mm rounds

american and brit troops are trained to take the headshot in situations like this.. no use risking a last gasp button push

**Ramius** · 19th August 2005, 14:20

Originally Posted by SARGE

and
E) he wouldnt have been shot just once..but riddled with 9mm rounds

american and brit troops are trained to take the headshot in situations like this.. no use risking a last gasp button push

See, I find that funny, because, there is one portion of the brain if hit will cause the sudden clenching reflex causing the button push. But, I just don't get why they don't use dead man triggers. You know the type, where if they release the tension, Kaboom...Which, consequently is the name of an Afghan holiday.