The fascist regime that made you a moron: Thanks dJonkey

[BoristheBiter]

Nothing wrong with policing or compliance as such. I'm all for it, rung 111 last night due to a dodgy peep near my car last night

But the introduction of totalitarian governance under the guise of terrorist threat is an appalling way to bring about a fascist state. Compliant suckers allow cunts to do cuntish things. Upstart watchdogs are are the bodies monitoring immune system,

what happens when they get whacked by an evil state of profits before people??

Do you realise how many 'halfwits' and mentally peeps are stitched up and doing time? Its bad enough having a mental health system that fails these people, but having cops [some cops] put the boot in, for being born affected by poor parental genes or pollutants and vaccination injury.... is just simply appalling.

The state is creating many of todays monsters by its lack of proper care of citizens, then the tax payer foots the bill.

How much is Pora going to cost everyone in the end?
If the health systems intervened correctly when he was a child, he may have paid $100'sk of tax by now instead of multi million dollar costs due to bad management of unwell citizens

TV has been recently implicated [te harold] in causing crime....
Who's the fucken retard??

You or is that a rhetorical question?

I would hazard a guess that there are far more family made "monsters" as you put it that state made ones.
And far more not in jail than in due to our PC bullshit laws, or should that be Judges.

And there would be far more cops bashed in their day to day work than give it out.

[scissorhands]

You or is that a rhetorical question?

I would hazard a guess that there are far more family made "monsters" as you put it that state made ones.
And far more not in jail than in due to our PC bullshit laws, or should that be Judges.

And there would be far more cops bashed in their day to day work than give it out.

te harold regarding television states otherwise
even if parenting is implicated, the states lack of intervention on behalf of spawn is a crime
defective peeps are breeding unaware of offspring health issues because no one is telling them so

There are two types of people, those who know they are crazy and those who dont.
I may may have an autism spectrum disoder, and you may have psychopathy going by your lack of understanding and empathy.

If you want to support a totalitarian state, fine, stand in line with all the others.
If I want to support a future where peeps are allowed to protest anti people money corporations, I will.

There certainly are plenty of criminals running around free as a bird, and many of them wear a suit.

[oneofsix]

So how would you enforce compliance?

You don't enforce compliance if your job is really to serve and protect. You can obtain compliance through respect etc as do good teachers, parents etc. When you resort to force you are a failure.

[BoristheBiter]

te harold regarding television states otherwise
even if parenting is implicated, the states lack of intervention on behalf of spawn is a crime
defective peeps are breeding unaware of offspring health issues because no one is telling them so

There are two types of people, those who know they are crazy and those who dont.
I may may have an autism spectrum disoder, and you may have psychopathy going by your lack of understanding and empathy.

If you want to support a totalitarian state, fine, stand in line with all the others.
If I want to support a future where peeps are allowed to protest anti people money corporations, I will.

There certainly are plenty of criminals running around free as a bird, and many of them wear a suit.

Show me one aspect of where the state is not showing what parents need where children are concerned.

You say that the state should step in and tell family's what they should be doing then you say they should be left alone. What the fuck do you want? Could you see the up roar from people like you if the state went and took kids out of homes that they think are unsuitable?

And you still haven't answered my question "So how would you enforce compliance?" or are you like most and are good at arguing a point but have no actual idea on what it takes to run anything never mind a country.

yep you are right there are plenty of criminals running around as it is your PC bullshit ideas that have caused it.

[BoristheBiter]

You don't enforce compliance if your job is really to serve and protect. You can obtain compliance through respect etc as do good teachers, parents etc. When you resort to force you are a failure.

Now who is being naive?

Sorry it was BB that said that.

Respect starts in the home from when you are born. It has nothing to do with the state.

[Banditbandit]

Blue rider broached the subject in the above post so I asked the question.

How do you get people to comply. Now I am not talking about Turkey and the government over reaction to a protest, I'm meaning things like the the occupy and general day to day stuff.

And stop using big words, you know i have to Google them.

Ok ... Large societies always need police forces (much as I don't even want a state, human nature is human nature) ... the question becomes how do you have laws and police forces that allow the maximum freedom while maintaining the security and safety of the citizens?

This is not an easy question to answer ... and different people wil have different views .. especially over how much freedom is acceptable or how little freedom is acceptable ... This is one of the fundamental left/right splits ... the left want more freedom while the right are usually more in favour of safety and security. (Except the libertarians who value freedom over safety and security - usually because they are prepared to look after that themselves and not rely on the state .. I do kind of share that perspective - I'm armed and prepared to fire if needed) ..

In New Zealand we do have a pretty good system .. we have a generally reliable police force that does do good work - sometimes they stuff up - Arthur Allan Thomas, Stephen Wallace, Kim.Com - and so they do need public scrutiny to keep then up to the mark ..

Unfortunately, that public scrutiny means the liberals get to comment .. and as I said above, the different perceptions of enforcement vs freedom, or the different opinions means there will be argument about police actions ... I don't see that as a bad thing ... rather I see that as a good thing .. and I think that the police force in New Zealand has the majority support of the citizens ... The only problem will arise if the majority of the citizens remove their support from the New Zealand police ...

I certainly support what they do and I think they do a very hard job really well .. occassionally I think they stuff up .. like shooting Stephen Wallace ... but then I think that the recent shooting in New Plymouth was spot on ... My only questions are: how come the armed offender yelled threats at police and fired his gun then yelled threats again .. How come he got a chance to yell threats a second time? and How come he was still conscious when the ambulance arrived? The police need to get more target practice ..

(And I'm not sorry about the big words ... can I offer you a place on an education programme?)

[BoristheBiter]

Ok ... Large societies always need police forces (much as I don't even weant a state, human nature is human nature) ... the question becomes how do you have laws and police forces that allow the maximum freedom while maintaining the security and safety of the citizens?

This is not an easy question to answer ... and different people wil have different views .. especially over how much freedom is acceptable or how little freedom is acceptable ... This is one of the fundamental left/right splits ... the left want more freedom while the right are usually more in favour of safetry and security. (Except the libertarians who value freedom over safety and security - usually because they are prepared to look after that themselves and not rely on the state .. I do kind of share that perspective - I'm armed and prepared to fire if needed) ..

In New Zealand we do have a pretty good system .. we have a generally reliable police force that does do good work - sometimes they stuff up - Arthur Allan Thomas, Stephen Wallace, Kim.Com) and so they do need public scrutiny to keep then up to the mark ..

Unfortunately, that public scrutiny means the liberals get to comment .. and as I said above, the different perceptions of enforcement vs freedom, or the different opinions means there will be argument about police actions ... I don't see that as a bad thing ... rathrer I see that as a good thing .. and I think that the police force in New Zealand has the majority support of the citizens ... The only problem will arise if the majority of the citizens remove their support from the New Zealand police ...

I certainly support what they do and I think they do a very hard job really well .. occassionally I think they stuiff up .. like shooting Stephen Wallace ... but then I think that the recent shooting in New Plymouth was spot on ... My only questions are: how come the armed offender yelled threates at police and fired his gun then yelled threats again .. How come he got a chance to yell threats a second time? and How come he was still conscious when the ambulance arrived? The police need to get more target practice ..

(And I'm not sorry about the big words ... can I offer you a place on an education programme?)

Great post bling sent and don't worry about me I only need big words when on KB

That really is the way i see things as like you say you can't keep everyone happy.

I'm basically a typical left/right fence sitter, as much freedom but fuck up and you're history.
I even agree with libertarians to a point but as the line goes you can have your freedom but don't let it interfere with mine.

a few things I disagree with (wouldn't be KB if i didn't) Stephen Wallace, the cop was right in shooting him (if someone was advancing on me with a golf club and bat i would have shot him earlier), New Plymouth they didn't shoot because of the Stephen Wallace shooting.

A per police SOP after he fired the gun he was no longer a threat so lethal force was not allowed until he went to reload and that was when he was shot (they did try and tazer him first) and they can't get more target practice as there is not enough budget for the bullets.

[Brian d marge]

Now who is being naive?


Respect starts in the home from when you are born. It has nothing to do with the state.

Pre coffee ,

The state Does cause the "look, makeup "of society ,

by demonizing , labeling sections of society and assisting or not assisting those groups

As I have said in MANY times , read the book "five families a mexican case study" to understand how the the arse end of society works

IF you are lucky to be born into a family that while being at the arse end , understands "white western puritan values" yes they will have a fighting chance of fitting into the society you and I are used to

As for the "middle classes , if I was a pollitician , I would run a few focus groups , find out what the largest voting block want , then spout those lines until I was voting in ,,,then change my policies , Aka , Clinton , Blair and quite a few others

Stephen

an old frog said " a man is born free but everywhere he is in chains " then went on to explain that we are "free" under or in the general will of the people and defined by law ,,,how Much freedom the law allows is the down to the general will or something like that

[BoristheBiter]

Pre coffee ,

The state Does cause the "look, makeup "of society ,

by demonizing , labeling sections of society and assisting or not assisting those groups

As I have said in MANY times , read the book "five families a mexican case study" to understand how the the arse end of society works

IF you are lucky to be born into a family that while being at the arse end , understands "white western puritan values" yes they will have a fighting chance of fitting into the society you and I are used to

As for the "middle classes , if I was a pollitician , I would run a few focus groups , find out what the largest voting block want , then spout those lines until I was voting in ,,,then change my policies , Aka , Clinton , Blair and quite a few others

Stephen

an old frog said " a man is born free but everywhere he is in chains " then went on to explain that we are "free" under or in the general will of the people and defined by law ,,,how Much freedom the law allows is the down to the general will or something like that

Sorry mate go, go have a coffee and come back.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I certainly support what they do and I think they do a very hard job really well .. occassionally I think they stuff up .. like shooting Stephen Wallace ... but then I think that the recent shooting in New Plymouth was spot on ... My only questions are: how come the armed offender yelled threats at police and fired his gun then yelled threats again .. How come he got a chance to yell threats a second time? and How come he was still conscious when the ambulance arrived? The police need to get more target practice ..

I dont agree that Keith Abbott shooting Wallace was a mistake. He advanced on an armed po lice and didnt stand down. Fuck him.

Re the guy earlier this week I think that the po po knew fairly early on who the punter was and what his deal was and that he wasn't likely to be any real danger to anyone. Speculation of course.

[Banditbandit]

a few things I disagree with (wouldn't be KB if i didn't) Stephen Wallace, the cop was right in shooting him (if someone was advancing on me with a golf club and bat i would have shot him earlier), New Plymouth they didn't shoot because of the Stephen Wallace shooting.

See .. this is why this discussion is necessary - but also acknowledging that we will never reach agreement.

But do I think the cop who pulled the trigger was at fault enough to be charged or discplined? Hell no .. an armed man was advancing on him .. he feared for his life (and the lives of others) and he pulled the trigger .. could he have made a better decision? Yes - but he should not be punished or villified for being human ...

A per police SOP after he fired the gun he was no longer a threat so lethal force was not allowed until he went to reload and that was when he was shot (they did try and tazer him first)

I wouldn't have waited for a reload .. how do you know he had a single shot? The prick threatened police and then pulled the trigger .. I would have shot him then ... (and bugger the tazer ... )

and they can't get more target practice as there is not enough budget for the bullets.

Budget be buggered - the cops miss more than they hit ... and in Auckland not so long ago a bad police miss hit and killed an innocent bystander ... THat should not be happening because of "budget pressure" ...

I dont agree that Keith Abbott shooting Wallace was a mistake. He advanced on an armed po lice and didnt stand down. Fuck him.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - I think Abbott could have made a better decision ... but I am not going to second guess him as an armed man was advancing and threatening him ... Give him some counselling, some training and give him his gun back ... I would rather have an armed officer prepared to use a weapon on the streets than a wimp who thought too long .. Abbott has proven he is prepared tro shoot in defense of himself and other people ...

Re the guy earlier this week I think that the po po knew fairly early on who the punter was and what his deal was and that he wasn't likely to be any real danger to anyone. Speculation of course.

Yeah - possibly ... but an armed man who had already fired a shot? I would want him dead before he had a chance to think again ... The killing was justified ..

[avgas]

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/06/18...-strip-search/

Over the last ten years, government funding for the SIS increased by 250% to $41 million in 2012. It employs the equivalent of 232 full time staff. Not to be outdone, the GCSB increased its full time staff to 294, with funding increasing by 174% over the same period of time to $63 million in 2012.

Really?!
What did they spend the money on. My systems have been monitoring stuff for decades for and cost 1/100th that.
Now I am not so concerned, if they can't monitor their own expenditure and find more efficient systems.........I very much doubt they could find the Kaitaia let alone me.

[Brian d marge]

Sorry mate go, go have a coffee and come back.

have and back and the above still stands
It wasn't my opinion rather than some well educated others

Them the fact whether you agree with them or not

Stephen

[BoristheBiter]

See .. this is why his discussionis necessary - but also acknoweldging that we will never reach agreement.

But do I think the cop who pulled the trigger was at fault enough to be charged or discplined? Hell no .. an armed man was advancing on him .. he feared for his life (and the lives of others) and he pulled the trigger .. could he have made a better decision? Yes - but he should not be punished or villified for being human ...

I wouldn't have waited for a reload .. how do you know he had a single shot? The prick threatened police and then pulled the trigger .. I would have shot him then ... (and bugger the tazer ... )

.

We just agreed, (i wont tell you if you don't).

[scissorhands]

Show me one aspect of where the state is not showing what parents need where children are concerned.

And you still haven't answered my question "So how would you enforce compliance?"

Excess sugar, excess carbs
classrooms not conducive for introverts
programmed with violence via media
harmful medications
bullying culture in schools and workplaces
.........
I could make a very long long list.....


Compliance enforcement is fine, except for the understanding of mental illness and to who is at fault or responsible for making a nut job,
THEY ARE CREATED!! parents and state share responsibility
otherwise, keep up the good work fellas
I even support harder punishments when credit is due

But ostracising then isolating someone into a lonely existence, due to neurology, humiliating them in the media, then wondering why they snap is a no brainer

Well for some anyhoos

School shootings in the USA are the outcome of the bullied who snap
All those innocent deaths are on the hands of a health system that lets down its most vulnerable citizens, and creates a school environment where bullying is not addressed.

Youtube 'bullycide in schools' as most of the sufferers take their own lives. Its a pretty sobering watch