The fascist regime that made you a moron: Thanks dJonkey

**Oscar** · 24th April 2013, 10:06

Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve

Well I'm not sure about the treasury & that, but he is right in that both parties are the same.
Both parties will fuck over NZ for personal gain, neither party is interested in what's best for NZ, Both parties will kill NZ

Actually, whereas I'm prepared to admit that there is a lot of mutual back scratching goes on in the right wing of NZ politics, I have to say that people like Russell Norman (however misguided) do genuinely believe that what they are doing will help society. There are also those in the centre, both Labour and National, with a proper public service ethic (although some of these people are so paternalistic toward the electorate it makes me sick).

**Banditbandit** · 24th April 2013, 10:31

Originally Posted by Oscar

Notwithstanding that, the GFC was caused by sub-prime mortgages and dodgey banking practices in the US. Whilst these are obviously a part of what you call free market economics, none of these factors are, or have ever been present in this part of the world.

That's not strictly true ... we might no have had the sub-prime disasters the US did .. but we certainly had some dodgey banking practices .. and quite a lot of New Zealand companies collapsed. Have a lo at this time line with some of the reasons given for the collapses ..

http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wor...any-collapses/

**Oscar** · 24th April 2013, 10:37

Originally Posted by Banditbandit

That's not strictly true ... we might no have had the sub-prime disasters the US did .. but we certainly had some dodgey banking practices .. and quite a lot of New Zealand companies collapsed. Have a lo at this time line with some of the reasons given for the collapses ..

http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wor...any-collapses/

What's not true?
Sub prime mortgages did cause the GFC, and there was no history of that sort of sub prime lending in NZ.

What you highlight has no relationship to the GFC and would have happened anyway. It was caused primarily by greed (by both the financiers and the investors), and was in cases criminal.

**Banditbandit** · 24th April 2013, 12:12

Originally Posted by Oscar

What's not true?
Sub prime mortgages did cause the GFC, and there was no history of that sort of sub prime lending in NZ.

What you highlight has no relationship to the GFC and would have happened anyway. It was caused primarily by greed (by both the financiers and the investors), and was in cases criminal.

No we did not have sub-primes like Merka .. but it was the rest of your post I was referring to ..

Whilst these are obviously a part of what you call free market economics, none of these factors are, or have ever been present in this part of the world.

Some of those factors were certainly present in Godzone .. including dodgey bank practices ...

Yes, it was caused primarily by greed ... but lending money to people with dodgey credit ratings (as some companies here did) caused those companies to fall over .. and then they could not pay the money they owed, so bigger companies fell over .. domino effect ...

**HenryDorsetCase** · 24th April 2013, 12:22

Originally Posted by Oscar

Firstly, a proper free market would have MRP sold off in its entirety.
It would make a whole lot more money that way, so maybe you are drawing a long bow.

Notwithstanding that, the GFC was caused by sub-prime mortgages and dodgey banking practices in the US. Whilst these are obviously a part of what you call free market economics, none of these factors are, or have ever been present in this part of the world.

So whereas as blaming something on unregulated free market economics does make you look learned to the uninitiated, and calling someone "Son" is undoubtedly an effort to seem old & wise, what you siad boils down to more tired propaganda...

clucking bell. I was trying to take the piss a bit, OK? Its not funny now that you've gone and EXPLAINED it.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 24th April 2013, 12:27

Originally Posted by Banditbandit

No we did not have sub-primes like Merka .. but it was the rest of your post I was referring to ..

Some of those factors were certainly present in Godzone .. including dodgey bank practices ...

Yes, it was caused primarily by greed ... but lending money to people with dodgey credit ratings (as some companies here did) caused those companies to fall over .. and then they could not pay the money they owed, so bigger companies fell over .. domino effect ...

agreed, no "sub prime" mortgages in the sense that the US had. What we had was a debt fuelled economic bubble. All those second (and third and fourth) tier lenders that were at least reckless and at worst criminal that as soon as it went south were completely ruined. along with the greedy fuckers who put money into them for 1 or 2% more than bank rates. I have limited sympathy for a lot of those people.

The best one was teh Gubblemunt guaranteed South Canterbury Finance: "too big to fail" "Alan Hubbard is a financial genius, NZ'w Warren Buffett". The amount of money that POURED in there all govt guaranteed (principal AND interest mind you) was staggering. And if memory serves the Govt guarantee on bank deposits was limited to $1M only at the time but not limited at all for them.

I still think that Jean was the brains of the operation, and she whacked Alan and made it look like a car wreck.....

**HenryDorsetCase** · 24th April 2013, 12:34

Originally Posted by Banditbandit

Yes, it was caused primarily by greed ... but lending money to people with dodgey credit ratings (as some companies here did) caused those companies to fall over .. and then they could not pay the money they owed, so bigger companies fell over .. domino effect ...

we didnt really have dodgy bank practices as such. Our big banks (the big 4, TSB, SBS, ASB etc) are pretty heavily regulated, and quite conservative. Even in 2006 I think the worst they got to was 95% LVR on residential .... I dont really remember.

The dodgy credit ratings and stuff was scumbag finance companies who lent to even dodgier property developers. Fine while the merrygoround is spinning, just dont be caught at the end. And of course in a lot of cases the finance co lent to themselves wearing other hats as developers using unsecured punters money to do it. And charging like wounded bulls all the way through.

and that sector was basically unregulated. Well, kinda regulated but utterly unenforced.

Lets do the roll call:

Andrew Kruikzener (crook-zener). Serepisos, Blue Chip (up and at it again in STraya I see), Hanover (proud sponsor of the State news organ, One network news), SCF, Dominion Finance, and a bunch of others.

**Oscar** · 24th April 2013, 12:44

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

clucking bell. I was trying to take the piss a bit, OK? Its not funny now that you've gone and EXPLAINED it.

Sorry

I won't do it again...

**BoristheBiter** · 24th April 2013, 13:08

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

unregulated free market economics, son.

see post below.

Originally Posted by Oscar

Firstly, a proper free market would have MRP sold off in its entirety.
It would make a whole lot more money that way, so maybe you are drawing a long bow.

Notwithstanding that, the GFC was caused by sub-prime mortgages and dodgey banking practices in the US. Whilst these are obviously a part of what you call free market economics, none of these factors are, or have ever been present in this part of the world.

So whereas as blaming something on unregulated free market economics does make you look learned to the uninitiated, and calling someone "Son" is undoubtedly an effort to seem old & wise, what you siad boils down to more tired propaganda...

**BoristheBiter** · 24th April 2013, 13:10

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

clucking bell. I was trying to take the piss a bit, OK? Its not funny now that you've gone and EXPLAINED it.

No it wasn't and your not funny.

**Banditbandit** · 24th April 2013, 14:42

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

I still think that Jean was the brains of the operation, and she whacked Alan and made it look like a car wreck.....

I'm more inclined to think it was a double suicide attempt, or maybe a murder/suicide ... she was not meant to survive ...

**Brian d marge** · 24th April 2013, 15:08

Originally Posted by Oscar

Similar?
One side is advocating the centralised purchase of electricity.
The other the privatisation of the same industry.
In the meantime the treasury is having to figure out how it cope with the economic downside of both paths.
You should take of your tinfoil cap and catch up - this was your dumbest post yet.

So labour isnt "centre "left and national isnt "centre" right and the statement of intent page 20/21 from the New Zealand treasury ( who in no way advise the current government ) ...doesnt look like a national party manifesto and bear no resemblance at all to a world bank policy outline, who in no way "advise" member countrys

oh sorry, my bad !

Stephen

**Brian d marge** · 24th April 2013, 15:16

Originally Posted by Oscar

Personal attacks?
Here?
Quelle horreur!

Go back and read his posts - in the clear light of evidence to the contrary he and his droogs are still crapping on about how both parties are the same and policy is controlled by Treasury. At the moment there couldn't be a clearer difference between National and Labour/Greens and the Treasury is having conniption fits about the fall out from both ill advised policies.

Maybe it is debate the first time, but it's just stupid (or dumb), the tenth time.

Well ultra violence is what you get when you marginalise a society and as for the clear evedence ..where is it.

Man up time , step up to the plate and produce

Ill get u started .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...in_New_Zealand oh look the word "centre " seems to flung about with gay abandon , wonder why .......

stephen

**Oscar** · 24th April 2013, 15:37

Originally Posted by Brian d marge

So labour isnt "centre "left and national isnt "centre" right and the statement of intent page 20/21 from the New Zealand treasury ( who in no way advise the current government ) ...doesnt look like a national party manifesto and bear no resemblance at all to a world bank policy outline, who in no way "advise" member countrys

oh sorry, my bad !

Stephen

Having re-read your original post, which seemed to infer that Treasury was writing the policy of the major parties, I see that it is so badly written that it could mean anything. I guess deniability one of the benefits of posting borderline gibberish.

**Oscar** · 24th April 2013, 15:42

Originally Posted by Brian d marge

Well ultra violence is what you get when you marginalise a society and as for the clear evedence ..where is it.

Man up time , step up to the plate and produce

Ill get u started .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...in_New_Zealand oh look the word "centre " seems to flung about with gay abandon , wonder why .......

stephen

Nah.
Why don't you read the new Labour/Green Electricity policy and tell me how that fits in the centre.
http://www.labour.org.nz/nzpower

•A new agency called NZ Power will act as a single buyer of wholesale electricity. It will also have the power to set prices.