Forum whore
And still no theories as to why a 1600 page, 3 volume report on the Concentration Camps by the International Red Cross, released in 1948, contains no references to homicidal gas chambers or to any systematic, deliberate attempt to exterminate an entire race of people.
111000101000100010011110
Answering the question would make things a lot clearerOriginally Posted by Brian d marge
But that clearly isn't what you want to do now is it?
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
No, it is quite the opposite.
History teaches us many things. Humans fail to learn from them, most certainly in the long run.
Humans are poor students.
TOP QUOTE: The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other peoples money.
Anorak
Really this seems go against that assertion of yours
"They were penned into concentration camps and ghettos, recruited for forced labour, subjected to grave brutalities and sent to death camps without anyone being allowed
to intervene in those matters."
Jews had been transformed into outcasts condemned by rigid racial legislation to suffer tyranny, persecution and SYSTEMATIC EXTERMINATION
Maybe this document should be ignored as well,
I have underlined the bit in case you miss it again.
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Forum whore
So the Red Cross delegate reported that they could not discover any trace of an installation that was used for the purpose of exterminating civilian prisoners.Maybe this document should be ignored as well,
Thank-you.
Aio ki te Aorangi
History is full of lies and one sided accounts. It's a shit teacher... so hard to blame the human when the shit being peddled is actually shit... and highly likely manufactured shit at that.
We are awesome students when we're ready to learn... just a shame that those who set the learning criteria set the curriculum and give the rest of us a bad name
I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!
Anorak
The red cross delegate was only shown what the Germans wanted him to see.
But as he said no further exterminations at Auschwitz
Indicates irrefutably they were aware that exterminations were taking place prior
I see you are unable to read what it means in the underlined section as it does not suit you own agenda
You seem to pick and choose.
I also see that your report that you cited contains two passages that you also ignore again.
"They were penned into concentration camps and ghettos, recruited for forced labour, subjected to grave brutalities and sent to death camps without anyone being allowed
to intervene in those matters."
” Jews had been transformed into outcasts condemned by rigid racial legislation to suffer tyranny, persecution and SYSTEMATIC EXTERMINATION ”
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Forum whore
Do you know exactly where in the Red Cross report those quotes can be found?
Because all I'm finding is that it's your darling Deborah Lipstadt who has attributed the quotes as to coming from the report in her book 'Denying the Holocaust'.
Curmudgeon
RESULTS OF THE EXTERMINATION PROGRAM The huge scale of the Jewish eliminations is also reflected in the bookkeeping and statistics of the Germans themselves. The 16 December 1941 entry in the diary of Hans Frank contains these figures: "The Jews for us also represent extraordinarily malignant gluttons.
"We have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in General Government -- perhaps with the Jewish mixtures, and everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews." (2233-D-PS) On 25 January 1944, three years and one month later, Frank wrote in his diary these words: "At the present time we still have in the General Government perhaps 100,000 Jews." (2233-F-PS)
Thus, in this period of three years, according to the records of the then Governor General of Occupied Poland, between 2,400,000 and 3,400,000 Jews had been eliminated. The total number of Jews who died by Nazi hands can never be definitely ascertained. It is known, however, that 4 million Jews died in concentration camps, and that 2 million Jews were killed by the State Police in the East, making a total of 6 million murdered Jews. The source of these figures is Adolph Eichmann, Chief of the Jewish Section of the Gestapo. The figures are contained in an affidavit made by Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl, Deputy Group Leader of the Foreign Section of the Security Section, AMT VI, of the RSHA. Hoettl, in his affidavit, states as follows:
"Approximately 4 million Jews had been killed in the various concentration camps, while an additional 2 million met death in other ways, the major part of which were shot by operational squads of the Security Police during the campaign against Russia." (2738-PS)
Hoettl describes the source of his information as follows:
"According to my knowledge, Eichmann was at that time the leader of the Jewish Section of the Gestapo, and in addition to that he had been ordered by Himmler to get a hold of the Jews in all the European countries and to transport them to Germany. Eichmann was then very much impressed with the fact that Rumania had withdrawn from the war in those days. Moreover, he had come to me to get information about the military situation which I received daily from the Hungarian Ministry of War and from the Commander of the Waffen-SS in Hungary. He expressed his conviction that Germany had now lost the war and that he personally had no [Page 1008] further chance. He knew that he would be considered one of the main war criminals by the United Nations, since he had millions of Jewish lives on his conscience. I asked him how many that was, to which he answered that although the number was a great Reich secret, he would tell me since I, as a historian, would be interested, and that he would probably not return anyhow from his command in Rumania. He had, shortly before that, made a report to Himmler, as the latter wanted to know the exact number of Jews who had been killed." ( 2738-PS)
Curmudgeon
The Jewish population remained temporarily unmolested shortly after the fighting. Only weeks, sometimes months later, specially detached formations of the police executed a planned shooting of Jews. The action as a rule proceeded from east to west. It was done entirely in public with the use of the Ukrainian militia, and unfortunately in many instances also with members of the armed forces taking part voluntarily. The way these actions, which included men and old men, women, and children of all ages were carried out was horrible. The great masses executed make this-action more gigantic than any similar measure taken so far in the Soviet Union. So far about 150,000 to 200,000 Jews may have been [Page 1004] executed in the part of the Ukraine belonging to the Reichskommissariat; no consideration was given to the interests of economy.
"Summarizing, it can be said that the kind of solution of the Jewish problem applied in the Ukraine which obviously was based on the ideological theories as a matter of principle had the following results:
"(a) Elimination of a part of partly superfluous eaters in the cities. "(b) Elimination of a part of the population which hated us undoubtedly. "(c) Elimination of badly needed tradesmen who were in many instances indispensable even in the interests of the armed forces. "(d) Consequences as to foreign policy -- propaganda which are obvious. "(e) Bad effects on the troops which in any case get indirect contact with the executions. "(f) Brutalizing effect on the formations which carry out the execution -- regular police." (3257-PS)
Lest it be thought that these conditions existed only in the East, the official Netherlands government report by the Commissioner for Repatriation as relates similar treatment of the Jews in the West (1726-PS). The German measures taken against the Dutch Jews -- discriminatory decrees, anti- semitic demonstrations, burning of synagogues, purging of Jews from the economic life of their country, food restrictions, forced labor, concentration camp confinement, deportation, and death -- all these measures follow the same pattern that was effected throughout Nazi-occupied Europe. The official Netherlands report states that full Jews, liable to deportation, numbered 140,000. The total number of actual Jewish deportees was 117,000, representing more than eighty-three per cent of all the Jews in the Netherlands. Of these, 115,000 were deported to Poland for slave labor, and after departure all trace of them was lost. Regardless of victory or defeat to Germany, the Jew was doomed. It was the expressed intent of the Nazi state that whatever the German fate might be the Jew would not survive. (1726-PS) A Top Secret message from the commandant of the SIPO and SD for the Radom District, addressed to SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Thiel on the subject, "Clearance of Prisons," reads as follows:
"I again stress the fact that the number of inmates of the SIPO and SD prisons must be kept as low as possible. In the [Page 1005] present situation, particularly, those suspects handed over by the civil police need only be subjected to a short, formal interrogation, provided there are no serious grounds for suspicion. They are then to be sent by the quickest route to a concentration camp, should no court martial proceeding be necessary or should there be no question of discharge. Please keep the number of discharges very low. Should the situation at the front necessitate it, early preparations are to be made for the total clearance of prisons. Should the situation develop suddenly in such a way that it is impossible to evacuate the prisoners, the prison inmates are to be liquidated and their bodies disposed of as far as possible (burning, blowing up the building, etc.). If necessary, Jews still employed in the armament industry or on other work are to be dealt with in the same way.
"The liberation of prisoners or Jews by the enemy, be it the WB [perhaps means 'West-Bund,' or 'Western Ally'] or the Red Army, must be avoided under all circumstances, nor may they fall into their hands alive." (L-53) (3) Mass Disposal of Jews in Concentration Camps. The concentration camps were utilized to dispose of literally millions of Jews, who died by mass shooting, gas, poison, starvation, and other means. The part which the concentration camps played in the annihilation of the Jewish people is indicated in an official Polish report on Auschwitz Concentration Camp (L-161). In Auschwitz during July 1944 Jews were killed at the rate of 12,000 daily: "*** During July 1944, they were being liquidated at the rate of 12,000 Hungarian Jews daily, and as the crematory could not deal with such numbers, many bodies were thrown into large pits and covered with quick lime." (L-161) The official Polish Government Commission Report on the Investigation of German crimes in Poland describes the concentration camp at Treblinka in these terms: "*** In March 1942, the Germans began to erect another camp, Treblinka B, in the neighborhood of Treblinka A, intended to become a place of torment for Jews. "The erection of this camp was closely connected with the German plans aiming at a complete destruction of the Jewish population in Poland which necessitated the creation of a machinery by means of which the Polish Jews could be killed in large numbers. Late in April 1942, the erection of the first three chambers was finished in which these general massacres [Page 1006] were to be performed by means of steam. Somewhat later the erection of the real death building was finished, which contains ten death chambers. It was opened for wholesale murders early in autumn 1942 ***." (3311-PS)
The report of the Polish commission describes graphically the procedure for extermination within the camp: "*** The average number of Jews dealt with at the camp in summer 1942 was about two railway transports daily, but there were days of much higher efficiency. From autumn 1942 this number was falling.
"After unloading in the siding all victims were assembled in one place where men were separated from women and children. In the first days of the existence of the camp the victims were made to believe that after a short stay in the camp, necessary for bathing and disinfection, they would be sent farther east, for work. Explanations of this sort were given by SS men who assisted at the unloading of the transports and further explanations could be read in notices stuck up on the walls of the barracks. But later, when more transports had to be dealt with, the Germans dropped all pretenses and only tried to accelerate the procedure. "All victims had to strip off their clothes and shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and children first, were driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move quickly were driven on by rifle butts, by whipping and kicking, often by Sauer himself. Many slipped and fell, the next victims pressed forward and stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After being filled up to capacity the chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes all was over. The Jewish menial workers had to remove the bodies from the platform and to bury them in mass graves. By and by, as new transports arrived, the -cemetery grew, extending in eastern direction. "From reports received, it may be assumed that several hundred thousands of Jews have been exterminated in Treblinka." (3311-PS)
An official United States government report issued by the Executive Office of the President of the United States, War Refugee Board, on the German camps at Auschwitz and Birkenau, sets forth the number of Jews gassed in Birkenau in the two year period between April 1942 and April 1944. The figure printed in this report is not a typographical error. The number is 1,765,000. (L-22)
Anorak
I do they are in the Red Cross report you cited
Maybe you need to actually go read the report before you cite it as evidence
AyeAs you always say do your own reseach.
I am picking as you removed the extermination part from your original quote you are now willing to concede the Red Cross was aware that Germany was engaged in a process to external Jews in the concentration camps
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Forum whore
It says that the delegates report corroborates a report from other (un-named) sources.But as he said no further exterminations at Auschwitz
Indicates irrefutably they were aware that exterminations were taking place prior
Who was that other source? Was it perhaps the World Jewish Congress, who had been making claims of extermination for a while prior to the Red Cross inspections?
If their extermination claims were falsified it would stand to reason that as soon as an independent body made steps to inspect the camps then the story would have to suddenly become "but it's not happening anymore".
Anorak
You may want to read it again it collaborates the sources information that there had been no further exterminations
Not what you are trying to now infer it says.
read that last paragrah why would the Red Cross be worried to have the report of the visit made public.
Katman your own sources that you have cited on your own volition, have yet again proceeded to bite you and again proved you are wrong.
Which is why you again have to resort to the buts ifs and maybes................
Maybe you should actually read some of the reports before you cite them as evidence
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Forum whore
It's quite an easy concept to understand.You may want to read it again it collaborates the sources information that there had been no further exterminations
Not what you are trying to now infer it says.
Katman your own sources that you have cited on your own volition, have yet again proceeded to bite you and again proved you are wrong.
Which is why you again have to resort to the buts ifs and maybes................
Maybe you should actually read some of the reports before you cite them as evidence
If someone decided to make up a story and someone else decided to check that story out then the first person would either have to come clean and admit they had made the story up or change their story to "but it's not happening anymore".
Understand?
The fact that no trace of any installation for the purpose of exterminating people was found (either in this camp or any other that was checked) adds weight to the theory that there may never have been any such installations.
Anorak
If if if if if if But but but but but Maybe Maybe Maybe Maybe
Is that all you have.................
So are you are now finally willing to concede that as proven by your own source of information.
That this assertion above underlined (of yours) is entirely incorrect it has no factual basis. Given that the report you cited contains quotes that say.
Or will you again run and hide duck and deny the obvious.
I look forward to some more ifs, buts, maybes and what ifs rather than actual evidence from you."They were penned into concentration camps and ghettos, recruited for forced labour, subjected to grave brutalities and sent to death camps without anyone being allowed
to intervene in those matters."
” Jews had been transformed into outcasts condemned by rigid racial legislation to suffer tyranny, persecution and SYSTEMATIC EXTERMINATION ”
After all every time you have submitted something you claim to be evidence it only further proves you are actually wrong.
Just like your Leuchter evidence did
Your Irving evidence did
Now your Red Cross evidence has.
Must be epic to be you.
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
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