Does your bike comply?

[Drew]

I could be wrong but isn't the point of lockwiring the caliper bolts to stop the bolts and caliper coming off completely, causing a crash ?

It doesn't really matter if the bolts loosen a little as the lock wire will prevent a full rotation of the bolt.

I don't agree with the lock wiring caliper bolts.

I don't think it makes anything safer. It's as likely to be missed, as tightening the bolts in the first place. Not that easy to spot on a bike rolling past a marshal either.

For someone like you bro, I can see it as a mind settling thing given you tendency to second guess yourself. But for it's intended purpose, it's just something else to fuck around with when trying to change a set of wheels, for the likes of me.

I'll tow the line of course, because I don't spanner that much these days anyway and it can't hurt after all.

[Grumph]

I could be wrong but isn't the point of lockwiring the caliper bolts to stop the bolts and caliper coming off completely, causing a crash ?

It doesn't really matter if the bolts loosen a little as the lock wire will prevent a full rotation of the bolt.

No it won't...lock wire will break. Anyone who raced a TD/TR/TZ back in the day will verify that lockwire will break.
The only way I know to positively lock this type of fastener is to use a plate beteen the bolts with bend up tads matching the flats on the heads.

Billy - you may have me confused with someone else - it's been many years since i was a steward - and i backed out of getting the COC qualification when i saw you giving out stewards tickets with them...NO thanks. So that was one of the most experienced COC's in the SI lost to you.
I can't even open the bloody MNZ website and have no need to be a member as all I do now is build and maintain the bikes.
In the old days of paper, I'd have learned through my club what was being proposed and had a chance to comment.
Call me a whining old cunt if you wish but I really don't like or see the neccessity for some of the rules you're bringing in....

[Dave-]

Wow,

Some really good feedback here,Pity you "EXPERTS" couldn't be arsed following the MNZ protocols and have your submissions in the correct place at the correct time,TOO LATE NOW!!!!

Still,Wouldnt expect folks that have your fellas sort of experience to actually know how the system works,Especially seeing as 2 of ya's are stewards and 1 is an ex roadrace commissioner,Go figure aye,The MNZ knocking machine has now extended to include those in the system.

Yip,The size was investigated and I have one on my machine as does Daniel Mettam and Glen Williams,Don't know where they got theirs,But I bought mine at Mt cycles,$15 retail,Visibility of a minimum 80 metres,Still I'd expext Alister would know all that....being a cyclist and all,Oh and the new rules will be included for ALL classes for 2015 if the board will allow it,Just trying to ease the competitors into it,Any other expert advice would be better sent to the correct people through the correct channels at the appropriate time.

I'm not offering feedback, I'm asking for clarification which is something done after a rule is set. I'll fire you an email as per protocol, you should send out the answer to the right people because there will be questions raised over this.

Please also take your time with the reply Billy, I by no means need an immediate answer.

No it won't...lock wire will break. Anyone who raced a TD/TR/TZ back in the day will verify that lockwire will break.
The only way I know to positively lock this type of fastener is to use a plate beteen the bolts with bend up tads matching the flats on the heads.

Billy - you may have me confused with someone else - it's been many years since i was a steward - and i backed out of getting the COC qualification when i saw you giving out stewards tickets with them...NO thanks. So that was one of the most experienced COC's in the SI lost to you.
I can't even open the bloody MNZ website and have no need to be a member as all I do now is build and maintain the bikes.
In the old days of paper, I'd have learned through my club what was being proposed and had a chance to comment.
Call me a whining old cunt if you wish but I really don't like or see the neccessity for some of the rules you're bringing in....

It is indeed designed to break, safety wire is an indicator not a restraint.

[Mental Trousers]

Lock wiring breaks. Best way to guarantee a bolt isn't going to vibrate loose is to put a dab of silicon under the head before tightening it. It acts like thread lock without getting the threads covered in shit.

However, R clips with lock wire is a good visual sign that you've attended to the caliper bolts because you don't put the pins/lock wire in until it's done. If the pins/lock wire isn't there you check them.

Haven't the side cars been running lights in the wet for a couple of years??

Personally, I think it's a good thing to bring alot of our rules inline with international standards.

[GD66]

Most of the MNZ rulebook nowadays resembles the Australian equivalent pretty closely, which makes a lot of sense considering the number of riders crossing the ditch in both directions to try their luck in a number of disciplines. Getting there...

[Kickaha]

Haven't the side cars been running lights in the wet for a couple of years??

Not at a NZ National or club level but they do in the UK or world champs

[malcy25]

Wow,

Some really good feedback here,Pity you "EXPERTS" couldn't be arsed following the MNZ protocols and have your submissions in the correct place at the correct time,TOO LATE NOW!!!!

Still,Wouldnt expect folks that have your fellas sort of experience to actually know how the system works,Especially seeing as 2 of ya's are stewards and 1 is an ex roadrace commissioner,Go figure aye,The MNZ knocking machine has now extended to include those in the system.

Hey Billy, I just checked back on my e-mails. I provided 11 bits of feedback on proposed rule changes to 2 different MNZ club reps to take to the conference. Does that not count?

Drew, you were coming across too normal for a change so I thought I'd swap places with ya!

[Dave-]

This is the official MotoGP regulation for wet races and the red light

1.20 "Wet" and "Dry" Races

All races will be categorised as either wet or dry. A board may be
displayed on the grid to indicate the status of the race. If no board is
displayed, the race is automatically dry. The purpose of this
classification is to indicate to riders the consequence of varying
climatic conditions during a race.

When a race is declared wet, either on the starting grid or by
display of the white flag after the start, every motorcycle must
have its Safety Light switched on (refer to Article 2.7.17).
The Race Director may also instruct riders to switch on safety
lights by means of a board displayed at the finish line (100cm
horizontal x 80cm vertical, black background with the word
“Light” in yellow). Safety lights must stay on until riders are
instructed to switch them off, such instruction will be
communicated by the same board displayed with the word
“Light” crossed out.

2.7.17 Safety Lights

All motorcycles must have a functioning red light mounted at the
rear of the machine to be used in rain or low visibility conditions,
as declared by Race Direction. Lights must comply with the
following:

a) lighting direction must be parallel to the machine centre
line (motorcycle running direction), and clearly visible from
the rear at least 15 degrees to both left and right sides of
the machine centre line.

b) mounted on the seat/rear bodywork behind the rear axle
line and approximately on the machine centre line. In case
of dispute over the mounting position or visibility, the
decision of the Technical Director will be final.
c) power output/luminosity equivalent to approximately:
10 – 15W (incandescent)
3 - 5W (LED)
d) able to be switched on and off by the rider when seated on
the machine.
e) safety light power supply can be separated from the
motorcycle main wiring and battery.

[Grumph]

That's clear and well written. WHY wasn't 2.17.7 adopted as it stands given that the vast majority of racebikes in NZ have on board battery power ?
I for one would like to be able to use other than LED lights.

[Deano]

For someone like you bro, I can see it as a mind settling thing given you tendency to second guess yourself.

Nah I'm all good with caliper bolts. Its sump plugs I often think I've under or over tightened. I'm much better than I used to be though - I'm learning to cope with my OCD LOL.

Lock wiring breaks.

Why does it break ? There is no appreciable load on it when a bolt tries to loosen is there ? Is it simply the vibration ?

[roogazza]

Nah I'm all good with caliper bolts. Its sump plugs I often think I've under or over tightened. I'm much better than I used to be though - I'm learning to cope with my OCD LOL.

Why does it break ? There is no appreciable load on it when a bolt tries to loosen is there ? Is it simply the vibration ?

Never heard of it myself Deano, motor Mech for many years and riding bikes for 50 !! Have seen caliper and sump bolts fall out tho, some causing accidents.
Lock wire, lock tabs and RTV stop bolts coming undone.
Must admit to OCD with sump bolts myself.

[Dave-]

Nah I'm all good with caliper bolts. Its sump plugs I often think I've under or over tightened. I'm much better than I used to be though - I'm learning to cope with my OCD LOL.




Why does it break ? There is no appreciable load on it when a bolt tries to loosen is there ? Is it simply the vibration ?

Never heard of it myself Deano, motor Mech for many years and riding bikes for 50 !! Have seen caliper and sump bolts fall out tho, some causing accidents.
Lock wire, lock tabs and RTV stop bolts coming undone.
Must admit to OCD with sump bolts myself.

Safety wire (or lock wire) is an indicator, it shows technical staff whether a bolt has undergone a torque sufficient to break the wire (which would be a considerable torque). The cause of that torque could be viabration or a part moving, it breaks because if it were stronger than the bolt then the bolt would break and that in most cases would be much worse.

[Drew]

Safety wire (or lock wire) is an indicator, it shows technical staff whether a bolt has undergone a torque sufficient to break the wire (which would be a considerable torque). The cause of that torque could be viabration or a part moving, it breaks because if it were stronger than the bolt then the bolt would break and that in most cases would be much worse.

That, is the worst explaination I have ever heard for the use of lock wire!

[Mental Trousers]

That, is the worst explaination I have ever heard for the use of lock wire!

This is KB, you'll find much worse (although there wasn't anything wrong with that explanation).

If I lock wire my sump plug so that it can't move at all the lock wiring breaks because there's only a single exhaust bracket to attach the other end too. The exhaust moves relative to the engine so if it's tight the movement snaps the lock wire. So I have to leave a couple of mils of slack in it.

Lock wiring will stop a lot of things from vibrating loose, but there's no guarantee it'll work. If there's any sort of torque on the bolt it'll break the lock wire.

It really is mostly a visual indicator that you've done things up because you don't lock wire a loose bolt.

[Dave-]

That, is the worst explaination I have ever heard for the use of lock wire!

Fuck you're a grumpy cunt, "Explaination" isn't a word you neanderthal.

How about you offer an explanation of the application of lock wire yourself smarty pants?