Cleveland kidnapping: Now here's a thought...

**Paul in NZ** · 13th May 2013, 11:08

This whole saga has really only started. The drawn out court trial media coverage with titillating details and shocked 'eoohs' and ahh's' from the ghouls and the appalled masses. And fair enough too - its hard to imagine anything more shocking that what this guys been up to in his basement for the last 10 years... Even given the usual media treatment its compelling and awful stuff... Simply frightening what people are capable off...

However - then there is this....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=10883207

Shit - I didn't think about it like that. Maybe its a result of growing up in a country where houses don't usually have basements. But I guess while that the Police do catch some 'smart' criminals, a lot of the people who wash up in front of the court do seem to be a tad challenged one way or the other. God forbid that this guy is right and that there are smart deviants out there with people locked away in basements without ever being discovered - its simply too horrible to think about.

Or maybe I've just developed lower than usual expectations about human nature...

**imdying** · 13th May 2013, 13:26

Don't need a basement, shipping containers are a pretty common site here in Chch now

**Paul in NZ** · 13th May 2013, 13:49

Originally Posted by imdying

Don't need a basement, shipping containers are a pretty common site here in Chch now

No I'm pretty sure a basement is a traditional requirement. Its an old charter or something.

**oneofsix** · 13th May 2013, 13:50

I hope the authour is being a bit naive about humans. He presumes a 7 yr old will always be a trusting as a 7 yr old or that the older victims will not always be seeking escape. Even in the case that triggered his article it was the victim seeking a return to normal life via a risky escaped that stopped the neighbours ignoring the subtle hints one images they could have picked up on if they tried, like the reports of slamming doors and naked girls crawling around the back yard.

The human spirit will drive you to escape such abuse and short of murder, eventually all such kidnappers will be found out.

**Paul in NZ** · 13th May 2013, 14:40

Originally Posted by oneofsix

I hope the authour is being a bit naive about humans. He presumes a 7 yr old will always be a trusting as a 7 yr old or that the older victims will not always be seeking escape. Even in the case that triggered his article it was the victim seeking a return to normal life via a risky escaped that stopped the neighbours ignoring the subtle hints one images they could have picked up on if they tried, like the reports of slamming doors and naked girls crawling around the back yard.

The human spirit will drive you to escape such abuse and short of murder, eventually all such kidnappers will be found out.

Yeah not so sure about that.... What you learn as a 7 year old you may well believe 30 years later... Also people shut off so long suffer from arrested development and.. Hang on - I shouldn't be arguing for these guys (and they are always guys)..

Yes - its possible that they all have/will be found out but there are possibly, given the huge numbers that go missing every year, some who manage to do it undetected... Scary thought.

**oldrider** · 13th May 2013, 14:42

The old flea circus conditioning system still works a treat on captives!

How many times have you seen boxes of captive little "love birds?" for sale in (overseas) market places with an open top on the box?

The birds are conditioned by placing a glass over the top of the box at all times except when they are at the market place!

Their wings are not clipped, they are totally conditioned that escape out of the top is impossible, probably much the same for these captive people!

Add to that a bit of the Patty Hurst Stockholm syndrome and the captors maintain complete control over them!

I wonder how many there really are out there?

Perish the thought!

**Akzle** · 13th May 2013, 16:57

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

God forbid that this guy is right and that there are smart deviants out there with people locked away in basements without ever being discovered - its simply too horrible to think about.

no it's okay bro. because they're rich. and white. and pedophiles. and usually politicians.
y'know ... the right sort

**jonbuoy** · 13th May 2013, 17:39

Originally Posted by Akzle

no it's okay bro. because they're rich. and white. and pedophiles. and usually politicians.
y'know ... the right sort

Yeah the poor black ones usually just throw them against the walls on a Saturday night. Weren't they from a poor Hispanic family?

**Milts** · 13th May 2013, 17:58

A very good point, how many unaccounted for missing people are there, really... quite a few I'd bet. Trouble is it's not illegal to be a social recluse, so how are any of them going to be found...

The most interesting thing I've read about this case is here:
http://www.badscience.net/2013/05/sh...hter-was-dead/

Just another good example of the bullshit that spiritual/psychic/new age fans spout left and right...

**Drew** · 13th May 2013, 18:44

Totally fuckin horrifying! We have no power at all to do anything about it either.

**Akzle** · 13th May 2013, 19:45

Originally Posted by jonbuoy

Yeah the poor black ones usually just throw them against the walls on a Saturday night. Weren't they from a poor Hispanic family?

first world problems eh... whatcha gonna do

**jonbuoy** · 13th May 2013, 22:17

Originally Posted by Akzle

first world problems eh... whatcha gonna do

You can bet a lot worse happens in the third world - at least the West generally accept that women are real people too. What´s even creepier is that these people are going about their everyday lives chatting with the neighbours over a BBQ and beers while standing on top of the hidden torture chamber. It never seems to be the weird looking eccentric ones that seem to be doing this.

**oldrider** · 14th May 2013, 08:34

Originally Posted by Milts

A very good point, how many unaccounted for missing people are there, really... quite a few I'd bet. Trouble is it's not illegal to be a social recluse, so how are any of them going to be found...

The most interesting thing I've read about this case is here:
http://www.badscience.net/2013/05/sh...hter-was-dead/

Just another good example of the bullshit that spiritual/psychic/new age fans spout left and right...

Question springs to mind ... why would you be fossicking about on sites like that anyway Milts? It only encourages them!

**Paul in NZ** · 14th May 2013, 08:42

Originally Posted by jonbuoy

You can bet a lot worse happens in the third world - at least the West generally accept that women are real people too. What´s even creepier is that these people are going about their everyday lives chatting with the neighbours over a BBQ and beers while standing on top of the hidden torture chamber. It never seems to be the weird looking eccentric ones that seem to be doing this.

Oh god yes.... Hadn't thought about that I suppose.

Ex neighbour and a good friend of ours works for the UN as an investigator in Africa in some very dodgy places. He won't even hint about the worst crimes - it would simply give you nightmares he says...

Shit - there I go again... We really can be a sack of shit as a species can't we...