helen clarks motorcade verdict

[WINJA]

In Japan if you get into to a car with a drunk driver, or for that matter a speeder, the passengers can face fines as well, quite serious fines. The reasoning behind it is that they should be responsible to either make the driver stop or get out of the car. Kind of like being party to a criminal act that you could stop, but choose not to. I for one think this isn't a truely bad idea, especially for drink drivers. If you get into a car with a drunk driver, then you are just as guilty as the driver.

MY MISSES JUST SAID THOSE FINES ARE ABOUT $3000 IN JAPAN, BUT YOU DONT NECCESARILY LOSE YOUR LICENCE

[scumdog]

MY MISSES JUST SAID THOSE FINES ARE ABOUT $3000 IN JAPAN, BUT YOU DONT NECCESARILY LOSE YOUR LICENCE

That's still a lot of petrol you could have bought....

I wonder what 'media beat-up' topic will front up next?? Yawn!!

I was MOST surprised at the sensible in-depth knowledge of some of the wel thought-out postings on this thread, right-on!! Those people should be running this country!!

[oldrider]

I find the posts on this thread mixed and very interesting. Helen is a slippery one alright. WINJA seems very upset.
Someone said, vote labour. "Really?"

[madboy]

Helen not taking responsibility is entirely expected, I mean HELLO wake up world, of course the big cheese always finds a way to pass the buck. That's the perk of being the big cheese.

The bit that irks me is that if I was tootling down the road at 170k (something not entirely foreign to me) I would be thinking that what I was doing was right (cos otherwise I wouldn't do it). IF I got caught, I'd fully expect to lose my license for a period of time. Hell, it's 70% over the speed limit!

But for these guys to do what they thought was right, after all it may well have been career suicide to do anything other than exactly what they did, and then claim that was a valid basis for receiving a piss-ass fine and no disq?? Well I don't agree there.

If anyone else does it - they lose their license for a decent period of time. And many people that would effect their jobs, etc. But these guys don't. That's not on in my books. Either what they did was right, or what they did was wrong. You can't play it down the middle.

They were cops. The same people who tell us that speeding is dangerous, and if you exceed 110km/h you're automatically a murderer in waiting. Anyone note a tinge of irony in that statement? I don't give a rats ass whether some of the learned cops on this site tell me that they're just following orders, who f***ing cares?! If I just follow orders to shoot someone, that doesn't make it right. If you do a job you have a moral problem with, you don't do it. If you continue to do the job, then by default you agree with the regime. So harden up cops, accept that the rules were bent yet again for you guys, and I hope you feel like great big hypocrites next time you pull one of us for speeding.

[idb]

.... the sensible in-depth knowledge of some of the wel thought-out postings on this thread, right-on!! Those people should be running this country!!

Aw shucks...stop it...you're embarrassing me.

[WINJA]

That's still a lot of petrol you could have bought....

I wonder what 'media beat-up' topic will front up next?? Yawn!!

I was MOST surprised at the sensible in-depth knowledge of some of the wel thought-out postings on this thread, right-on!! Those people should be running this country!!

ITS NOT A MEDIA BEAT UP , IS YOUR DEFINITION OF A MEDIA BEAT UP ANYTHING BAD SAID AGAINST THE COPS

[Timber020]

Okay so they were going to a rugby game, would it be fair to say that the cops would have also been going to the same game? Guys like driving fast, give them an excuse and they will do it.

She is the PM, the buck does stop with her but I doubt that with all she does that things like the speed of the motorcade, the type of vehicles used, oil and water checks of the vehicles, security etc is not something that is her responsibility. Its done for her by staff, they make the calls as they are responsible for he itenarly safety and transport, shes just the passenger. If she was driving I'd call for her head.

[scumdog]

ITS NOT A MEDIA BEAT UP , IS YOUR DEFINITION OF A MEDIA BEAT UP ANYTHING BAD SAID AGAINST THE COPS

No, but taking a Fairlane for a couple of laps around Pukekohe proves what????
It was THE most pointless thing I have seen for a long time.

Not arguing about the penalties involved, the guys were lucky. (just wonder how 'quick' the next urgent trip that Teflon Helen takes??)

[WINJA]

No, but taking a Fairlane for a couple of laps around Pukekohe proves what????
It was THE most pointless thing I have seen for a long time.

Not arguing about the penalties involved, the guys were lucky. (just wonder how 'quick' the next urgent trip that Teflon Helen takes??)

OH YEAH THE PUKE THING , FAIR NUF SCUM NO ARGUEMENT THERE

[James Deuce]

{snip} I don't give a rats ass whether some of the learned cops on this site tell me that they're just following orders, who f***ing cares?! If I just follow orders to shoot someone, that doesn't make it right. {snip}.

That's called the "Nuremburg defence", it didn't work then (1945-'49), and it most definitely shouldn't be allowed now.

The whole thing just makes me sad. It's a bit off when those in power (pollies I mean, not the Police) rub our noses in how little real personal power we actually have.

[Skyryder]

That's called the "Nuremburg defence", it didn't work then (1945-'49), and it most definitely shouldn't be allowed now.

The whole thing just makes me sad. It's a bit off when those in power (pollies I mean, not the Police) rub our noses in how little real personal power we actually have.

We all have personal power. It's derived from two words, yes or no. When you allow your superiors to intimidate you to such an extent as to break the law, as the drivers of the PM's motorcade did, then you either do not have the balls to say no or are too scared too. Or else you consider yourself above the law.

They all should have been found guilty not just three of them.



Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Helen not taking responsibility is entirely expected, I mean HELLO wake up world, of course the big cheese always finds a way to pass the buck. That's the perk of being the big cheese.

The bit that irks me is that if I was tootling down the road at 170k (something not entirely foreign to me) I would be thinking that what I was doing was right (cos otherwise I wouldn't do it). IF I got caught, I'd fully expect to lose my license for a period of time. Hell, it's 70% over the speed limit!

But for these guys to do what they thought was right, after all it may well have been career suicide to do anything other than exactly what they did, and then claim that was a valid basis for receiving a piss-ass fine and no disq?? Well I don't agree there.

If anyone else does it - they lose their license for a decent period of time. And many people that would effect their jobs, etc. But these guys don't. That's not on in my books. Either what they did was right, or what they did was wrong. You can't play it down the middle.

They were cops. The same people who tell us that speeding is dangerous, and if you exceed 110km/h you're automatically a murderer in waiting. Anyone note a tinge of irony in that statement? I don't give a rats ass whether some of the learned cops on this site tell me that they're just following orders, who f***ing cares?! If I just follow orders to shoot someone, that doesn't make it right. If you do a job you have a moral problem with, you don't do it. If you continue to do the job, then by default you agree with the regime. So harden up cops, accept that the rules were bent yet again for you guys, and I hope you feel like great big hypocrites next time you pull one of us for speeding.

Agree with most of what you say with the exception to references to Helen Clark. The fact that she is the PM does (correction) 'not' make her responsible for the behavour of her drivers. Well not in law anyway.

The simple fact is that if you drive and are caught for some road infringment then it is the driver who gets charged. Some here think it should also be the passanger. Now just think about that for a minute..............so your wife or partner is driving and you are running late or whatever..............and you are charged along with the driver. Hell there's enough bitching about speeding tickets as it is when in control a vehicle let alone passangers being charged.

Skyryder

[James Deuce]

We all have personal power. It's derived from two words, yes or no. When you allow your superiors to intimidate you to such and extent as the drivers of the PM's motorcade did then you either do not have the balls to say no or are too scared too. Or else you consider yourself above the law.

They all should have been found guilty not just three of them.



Skyryder

I agree with the last bit, but I really don't understand your first paragraph at all. On the one hand you agree with my "Nuremburg Defence" analogy, but then you accuse me of considering myself above the law. I don't.

[pyrocam]

Possibly... You can be my character witness... and tell them how sensible i am at riding

can I record the court case and make it my avatar?

[Skyryder]

I agree with the last bit, but I really don't understand your first paragraph at all. On the one hand you agree with my "Nuremburg Defence" analogy, but then you accuse me of considering myself above the law. I don't.

Jim 'you' have mistaken this as a personal pronoun in reference to youself. In my first post on this matter I was using it in the plural.

From the Concise Oxford Dictionary

YOU Pronoun. Used with person or persons addressed or one such person and one or more associated persons. end quote

I was refering to the defendents not yourself.



Skyryder