The role of parents in financial education

[oldrider]

FISH .. Oh .. my favourite past time after bike riding and sex .. I think I'll fire up the boat this weekend and see if I can kill some fish ...

(Unlike the pix above I got snapper, gurnard, trevally and kahawai (more than one of each) last time I went out about four weeks ago ... )

But did you do a sustainability check on the first two? (bike riding and sex)

[Edbear]

I understand where you are coming from though . Being financially aware does not stop the behaviours you are talking about. Billionnaires go broke too ya know. The one thing people seem to be ignoring is that at the time of taking out HP those people can afford it. Otherwise that'd be classed as irresponsible lending wouldn't it?
It's not hard to know how much you can afford to pay at any given point in time. You have X coming in each week, you can afford to spend Y. The problems occur when circumstances change i.e. interest rates rise, cost of living rises, an unforeseen expense appears and they borrow borrow borrow with every intention of being able to pay it back. Plenty of people do pay it back, plenty of people hit the skids and end up out of their depth through no real fault of their own, coz circumstance screws their once comfortable position.
It's all fine and well telling kids to live beyond their means and I'd venture that the majority manage just fine... unless you have figures to highlight otherwise? So it doesn't highlight a lack of education in regards to spending etc... it highlights a problem that life changes and catches people out financially sometimes.
Most of the bankruptcies in the US are due to having to pay medical bills, not due to people overspending. Read up on it, because it isn't people living beyond their means.

The problem is forward thinking. While I might be comfortably able to meet my obligations today, what happens if I have a car accident and break my back tomorrow..?

I told my kids, commit in the knowledge that it could turn pear-shaped, then what? People need to be taught to plan for contingencies. The US is an example of people expecting things to continue to improve on a bubble that was doomed to burst and did not have a contingency plan for if their fortunes were reversed instead.

[jonbuoy]

I have to question how much Mashman has actually researched his soapbox subject - corporate bartering systems are already in place all over the world. Mashman have you actually researched and looked at other people's theories on a moneyless system - they have a much better understanding if how things work - and slightly less Jehovah's Witness method of getting their point accross. You idea isn't new or unique- Google it.

[scumdog]

does not work anymore....no one went to the sustainability classes

Yup, the story of NZ fisheries.

Find a species, talk it up to the public. (well, a lot of the fish 'popular' today weren't to popular a few years ago.)

Over-fish it

Move onto another species...

[mashman]

Interesting concept.
End poverty. Or simply move it?

What do you mean move it? We're talking about ending it. There will be houses, there will be fresh water, there will be food, there will be electricity (as there is today) plus much much more.

Say remove money altogether. So now instead of $1m I have a million sheep. People come to me and when I need something I swap a sheep for it.
Every day I have lamb.
Am I likely to ever live at the same level as someone who had say 5 sheep?
Or would you be like Mao and kill me off so that you can give everyone an equal share of my sheep?

Why would people need to come to you? An entire country full of people are still going to need fed. I assume what you're really asking is "What do I get in return?"?. Someone to fix yer tractor, make feed, electricity, clothing, fuel, internet, healthcare, education for your kids etc... all provided for free. Essentially if we start tallying up who has what and who is worth what instead of what does the country have and what does the country need, then we'll bog ourselves down in details. I believe they refer to it as sharing.
You will be at the same level as everyone else.
I'd kill you off in a heartbeat, but that's just coz I think you're a cunt.

There is an old Russian engineer saying.
они вид, что платят мне, я вид, что работаем
"They pretend to pay me, I pretend to work"

Now I would like to say that I would keep doing what I was doing without pay. But to be brutally honest I have always wanted to stop working for everyone else - disappear, become self sufficient and think/learn away from the mass. Perhaps do my own designs etc.
I would not contribute to society at all. I would simply ignore it. I see no point in helping the common man, only specific ones whom I choose.
The only thing that makes me step outside this comfort zone currently is the fact that I will receive some form of reward for doing so.
In most instances this is money.

If I don't require money, I will become completely selfish and only do what I want to do. Which suits me fine. But might go against the design of the system. I would change from a provider to a free-rider.

How many people are there in the country that do your job? Would it be possible that you would spend a little time training 3 or 4 others to share the burden of your role (providing backup), then replacing you to go off and do what you want?
If you decide not to contribute, it would be a shame... likely there will be others who decide to do similar. If you decide that you want to choose to help on certain individuals, then that's your choice. It won't bring the system down.

Go for it. If that's really what you want to do, then go for it. Hopefully enough people will do the same and the entire thing will fail and we'll head back to poverty et al. (hopefully an obvious sarcasm)

Perhaps we should teach kids morals of how the current system should work.............and then hope they get it right.
Teaching them why its broken........nothing positive is to come out of that. It won't fix poverty - it creates it.
If you ride a motorbike do you stare at the corner with all the crosses on it?
Your answer is that we should - and make the road safer. I question if we make the road safer does it fix anything?

Don't we teach kids morals anyway?
I'm with you in regards to making the road safer. Maybe it's worth removing all signage, all lines, all lights etc... perhaps people will drive more considerately. Dunno.

[mashman]

The problem is forward thinking. While I might be comfortably able to meet my obligations today, what happens if I have a car accident and break my back tomorrow..?

I told my kids, commit in the knowledge that it could turn pear-shaped, then what? People need to be taught to plan for contingencies. The US is an example of people expecting things to continue to improve on a bubble that was doomed to burst and did not have a contingency plan for if their fortunes were reversed instead.

Put your life on hold surely? Never leave the house must be a go there?

So a bubble bursts, it affects the income of a large number of people and the people get the blame for it? Take money out of the equation and there ain't no problem in the first place. Why firefight when you can mitigate entirely? You can plan for every contingency you like and should the worst happen you may be able to muddle through etc... not everyone is that resilient and no one, and I mean no one, should be shoved to the bottom of the pile to be ignored because they are of no financial benefit to the economy... indeed they are now a drag on it. Why not just shoot those who are a negative drag and be done with it? And if we decide that that is the way to go, then I'll happily endorse a deeper financial literacy in schools as being a useful thing to know.

Although we can insure ourselves to mitigate financial problems . Wasting money on insurance that may never be needed and you can bet yaw ass they'll try to get out of it if they can. Financial Literacy is not a solution if the professionals can fuck up so royally.

[mashman]

I have to question how much Mashman has actually researched his soapbox subject - corporate bartering systems are already in place all over the world. Mashman have you actually researched and looked at other people's theories on a moneyless system - they have a much better understanding if how things work - and slightly less Jehovah's Witness method of getting their point accross. You idea isn't new or unique- Google it.

THERE WILL BE NO BARTER... outwith that which individuals decide to undertake themselves. I know it's not unique, never said it was. Do you have another assumption you'd like to throw out there? Time Banking is about the best solution I've hear thus far, but it is open to rort too and isn't much better than the financial system the deeper it's looked into. Time banking is a form of barter and barter will fail where someone gets all precious about a chicken being worth less than a cow. Why not just share the milk and eggs, win win.

[mashman]

Yup, the story of NZ fisheries.

Find a species, talk it up to the public. (well, a lot of the fish 'popular' today weren't to popular a few years ago.)

Over-fish it

Move onto another species...

Fuckers gotta make their money ya fuckin hippy.

[Ocean1]

The piece of paper in your pocket is a symbol that someone owes you something ... the money carries that debt ....

Yes, it's a symbol that the reserve bank agrees that I have that quantity of value in credit with them. What's your point?

Do you have any conception of the terms "systemic failures" and "systemic issues" ???.

I do. In fact fixing systemic fuckups is my field of expertise. It pays well.

Hang on .. your lunch can not be both free and earned by you ... that's a definite conflict in ideas right there ..

But that's the point, Mashmate rightly pointed out that there wasn't any such thing as a free lunch, I was simply pointing out that my lunches cost nobody else a dime. Which is a concept completely at odds with his ideology.

[jonbuoy]

THERE WILL BE NO BARTER... outwith that which individuals decide to undertake themselves. I know it's not unique, never said it was. Do you have another assumption you'd like to throw out there? Time Banking is about the best solution I've hear thus far, but it is open to rort too and isn't much better than the financial system the deeper it's looked into. Time banking is a form of barter and barter will fail where someone gets all precious about a chicken being worth less than a cow. Why not just share the milk and eggs, win win.

So it's utopian socialism?

[mashman]

But that's the point, Mashmate rightly pointed out that there wasn't any such thing as a free lunch, I was simply pointing out that my lunches cost nobody else a dime. Which is a concept completely at odds with his ideology.

That ignores where your lunch came from and the wages that that person is paid, which will have them claiming for assistance off the state, which mean your lunch does actually cost others more than a dime. Fucksake I hope you give your job more thought.

[mashman]

So it's utopian socialism?

I've already answered no to that... but it gives you the chance to find your own utopia if ya like. Just keep on doing what we're doing and don't let budget constraint hold anyone back from anything. If it provides an environment that can get rid of poverty, then what else can it achieve? By the sounds of things it's nothing that has been offered before, despite all of those who are espousing similar things ... (just in case you think I'm serious, I'm not).

[jonbuoy]

I've already answered no to that... but it gives you the chance to find your own utopia if ya like. Just keep on doing what we're doing and don't let budget constraint hold anyone back from anything. If it provides an environment that can get rid of poverty, then what else can it achieve? By the sounds of things it's nothing that has been offered before, despite all of those who are espousing similar things ... (just in case you think I'm serious, I'm not).

Its not impossible to get rid of poverty now though is it? If your opinion that all humans are really cute and fluffy on the inside why do you think money is the problem? What´s to stop everyday people from doing a little extra shopping on a weekend and distributing it themselves amongst the homeless people with a blanket and a thermos flask? Sure a minority of people do - but not many.

[mashman]

Its not impossible to get rid of poverty now though is it? If your opinion that all humans are really cute and fluffy on the inside why do you think money is the problem? What´s to stop everyday people from doing a little extra shopping on a weekend and distributing it themselves amongst the homeless people with a blanket and a thermos flask? Sure a minority of people do - but not many.

Why hasn't it been done? and why are poverty rates rising if it's so easy? After all it's just a money problem and money is infinite. The problem is that people just don't give a shit about it, it's something that the govt are supposed to be sorting out with the tax money that we pay. There's nothing to stop us, I agree, so we throw money at a charity and our conscience is clear because we've done out bit... but as avgas says, is that really dealing with the problem? That and a lot of us have jobs to go to, family's to feed, distances to travel etc... Lots of factors go into it. I'd rather the homeless guy could have a home if he likes, would receive treatment if he needs it, could shop for himself etc... but for whatever reasons that doesn't happen and the spaces and resources are slowly going the way of the dodo to pay for something else.

[jonbuoy]

Why hasn't it been done? and why are poverty rates rising if it's so easy? After all it's just a money problem and money is infinite. The problem is that people just don't give a shit about it, it's something that the govt are supposed to be sorting out with the tax money that we pay. There's nothing to stop us, I agree, so we throw money at a charity and our conscience is clear because we've done out bit... but as avgas says, is that really dealing with the problem? That and a lot of us have jobs to go to, family's to feed, distances to travel etc... Lots of factors go into it. I'd rather the homeless guy could have a home if he likes, would receive treatment if he needs it, could shop for himself etc... but for whatever reasons that doesn't happen and the spaces and resources are slowly going the way of the dodo to pay for something else.

EXACTLY people don´t give a shit and that won´t change if you get rid of the money. Its a people problem. If we were all utopian citizens we would take our time to do it - the vast majority could afford to give up an hour and 5$ of their leisure money a month to do it including you and me - but we don´t. There is no reason for anyone to be homeless or starving in places like the UK or NZ - they have excellent benefit systems compared to the rest of the world. Its an easy cop out to blame the money and governments when we all do so little to help.