The role of parents in financial education

[jonbuoy]

People already do that and it hasn't made a dent. Something more effective needs to be done. I asked if you would be prepared to do what it takes, not are you doing.

How can you go back?

Yes really. It's not apathy if you know what you have in your pocket. Surely credit cards would be banned?

Ok you will have to explain what I would have to do under your system for me to give an answer!

Go back by future generations not getting themselves into too much debt.

How can you know what you have in your pocket is right if you can't read a bank statement or understand bank charges. Do you rely blindly on the cashier giving you the correct change? Do you check those bank charges and withdrawals on your statements?

[mashman]

Ok you will have to explain what I would have to do under your system for me to give an answer!

Go back by future generations not getting themselves into too much debt.

How can you know what you have in your pocket is right if you can't read a bank statement or understand bank charges. Do you rely blindly on the cashier giving you the correct change? Do you check those bank charges and withdrawals on your statements?

Carry on living the way you live i.e. carry on working, carry on shopping, carry on going to the pub, carry on doing what you do. Just live without money. You will have access to everything you currently have access to. Like I said, very little will change... the rest will be up to NZers.

I believe there have been a few "resets" in the past, yet they have taken us to where we are today. It doesn't work.

Sometimes I check my change and my statements, sometimes I don't... however the missus is quite the opposite. It's not hard to read a balance and I learned how to do that myself and I'm a dumb fuck that doesn't care. Trust is everything and where money exists, it will be abused.

In fact on the news at the moment they're talking about cell phone cyber crime and that you should prevent it from happening. Awesome, they have been fighting cyber crime on the internet for decades and guess what, it still gets broken in to. Reckon that crime might be financially motivated? That crime won't exist under "my" system , because there is no financial gain.

[jonbuoy]

Carry on living the way you live i.e. carry on working, carry on shopping, carry on going to the pub, carry on doing what you do. Just live without money. You will have access to everything you currently have access to. Like I said, very little will change... the rest will be up to NZers.

I believe there have been a few "resets" in the past, yet they have taken us to where we are today. It doesn't work.

Sometimes I check my change and my statements, sometimes I don't... however the missus is quite the opposite. It's not hard to read a balance and I learned how to do that myself and I'm a dumb fuck that doesn't care. Trust is everything and where money exists, it will be abused.

In fact on the news at the moment they're talking about cell phone cyber crime and that you should prevent it from happening. Awesome, they have been fighting cyber crime on the internet for decades and guess what, it still gets broken in to. Reckon that crime might be financially motivated? That crime won't exist under "my" system , because there is no financial gain.

Are you not going to take anyone's possessions away?

[328FTW]

I know someone that hacks facebook, phones, profiles etc just so he can be a scumbag under the guise of a new name. He just does it for funnies cause he's immature.

There is no financial gain for rape, assault, car theft in order to joyride, vandalism etc. Should the current denominations of currency be ceased I would assume there would be new materialistic items that become the new holy grail. Then ultimately you could take away every conceivable item, put us all in a pair of briefs in a dark room. I would put money on the fact your personality, trust, instinct and friends etc would become of value and people would beat you to death to try gain that or try be the big alpha male/dominate one. Money is not the only thing that fuels the greedy or those that want to dominate others, it's a means to an end though.

I tireless work towards my cars and other things, I don't necessarily spend money to do it but time/skill. At the end you have a commodity which can be taken without the drawbacks of said time/skill. Which is why even some "perfect system" will not eliminate scumbags, dominance of others and other darker human traits; you'd have to take away the things I enjoy and do in order to even try achieve it so in the end how has this new system achieved anything better? I've found the most effective means to overcome slimeballs is simply to be smarter, more inquisitive than first glance and if shit hits the fan one mean SOB you'll wish you didn't cross. So really I don't believe there is a real solution you can apply to society as much as a solution you apply to yourself/your mindset.

Of course that doesn't mean we should cut the reins and have an economic free for all but eliminating money doesn't at all in my mind point to some new utopia if that's what is being implied.

[mashman]

Are you not going to take anyone's possessions away?

WTF for?

[jonbuoy]

WTF for?

So my boss can keep his 80m yacht?

[mashman]

I know someone that hacks facebook, phones, profiles etc just so he can be a scumbag under the guise of a new name. He just does it for funnies cause he's immature.

There is no financial gain for rape, assault, car theft in order to joyride, vandalism etc. Should the current denominations of currency be ceased I would assume there would be new materialistic items that become the new holy grail. Then ultimately you could take away every conceivable item, put us all in a pair of briefs in a dark room. I would put money on the fact your personality, trust, instinct and friends etc would become of value and people would beat you to death to try gain that or try be the big alpha male/dominate one. Money is not the only thing that fuels the greedy or those that want to dominate others, it's a means to an end though.

I tireless work towards my cars and other things, I don't necessarily spend money to do it but time/skill. At the end you have a commodity which can be taken without the drawbacks of said time/skill. Which is why even some "perfect system" will not eliminate scumbags, dominance of others and other darker human traits; you'd have to take away the things I enjoy and do in order to even try achieve it so in the end how has this new system achieved anything better? I've found the most effective means to overcome slimeballs is simply to be smarter, more inquisitive than first glance and if shit hits the fan one mean SOB you'll wish you didn't cross. So really I don't believe there is a real solution you can apply to society as much as a solution you apply to yourself/your mindset.

Of course that doesn't mean we should cut the reins and have an economic free for all but eliminating money doesn't at all in my mind point to some new utopia if that's what is being implied.

A mate of mine used to hack people's routers, well when I say hack, he just used to connect to them and use the default password associated with that router. Same principle, just easier to do. It was a giggle, but got boring after about 30 seconds. Given that phones are going to become credit cards, there will be a criminal element and those that are less savvy are gonna do things the old school way.

Everything that you highlight currently happens, even the taking of people's stuff, rape, molestation etc... the idea behind NOW is to provide an environment where the darker side of people's behaviours needn't be the dominant ones. I'm not for a moment believing that we're all gonna be huggy huggy kissy kissy and that the behaviour will vanish, but if the thief who wants a phone wants a phone, he can just go to the shop and get one for free. After all, the phone was made to be used, he may as well have it. That's one potential crime stopped. Take that "philosophy" and apply it to every other situation where a shitbag gets to that point where he's ready to take stuff, including the conmen etc... People will have the opportunity to exercise personal responsibility with just about zero excuses for doing something bad.

The darker human traits are environmental. Not every kid grows up to be a cunt, in fact very few do and as you highlight, that has nothing to do with the financial system. The best we can do is give people what they need to survive and the hope that they don't go apeshit and start dominating people. Whilst they may well try to do that, those around may object and the last thing I would do is discount someone that I thought was a soft arse. Just because they are, doesn't mean they can't defend themselves... and given that there's less crime around, the cops will be able to focus more time and energy into catching those fuckers. Sure there will be fights coz my dad is bigger than your dad and your mum was gargling my seminal fluid last night, but hey, nothing wrong with a bit of mono e mono conflict. So for arguments sake, people get everything they need provided for them (i.e. they all work to produce what we all need cooperatively), that'd be a good case for bringing back the death penalty for those who do rape, molest, cause malicious physical harm etc...?

I giggle when people mention Utopia. There's no such thing for a society, but it may well offer for individuals to enjoy on a personal basis... your own personal nirvana. Could be doing cars up, could be making movies, could be studying interstellar travel, the list is endless. Our darker traits will always exist, but I see that as no reason not to implement a system that offers an environment that culls the big issues of the day. I'm not naive enough to believe that other issues won't take their place, but one thing at a time. Let's get rid of the financial system and then see how we sit. Who knows, we may have to go back to a financial system... but we won't know unless we try and I see nothing in your post to suggest that NOW is a bad thing.

[mashman]

So my boss can keep his 80m yacht?

Absolutely. Why would you think that "we" would take stuff away from people?

[jonbuoy]

Absolutely. Why would you think that "we" would take stuff away from people?

So I can have one too?

[Ocean1]

Absolutely. Why would you think that "we" would take stuff away from people?

Can't wait for your revolutionary system, dude.

How do I go about pre-ordering an 80ft yacht?

[mashman]

So I can have one too?

If the boat builder is building boats, then why not? Or how's about something in the spirit of the "new society", how's about he lends you his when he isn't using it?

Can't wait for your revolutionary system, dude.

How do I go about pre-ordering an 80ft yacht?

jon beat you to it, so you'll have to join the queue... unless of course you're less of a wanker than jon is and the boat builder exercises his right to push you to the head of the queue.

[Banditbandit]

Splitter...

[mashman]

Ok you will have to explain what I would have to do under your system for me to give an answer!

..........

[jonbuoy]

If the boat builder is building boats, then why not? Or how's about something in the spirit of the "new society", how's about he lends you his when he isn't using it?



jon beat you to it, so you'll have to join the queue... unless of course you're less of a wanker than jon is and the boat builder exercises his right to push you to the head of the queue.

I doubt it - Ocean1 seems alright to me and Im pretty good at being a wanker sometimes. But its 80meters not 80 feet - yes obscene but without it I wouldnt have a job. But there is no way there are enough resources for eveyone to have one or to have a trip in one so you would have to take it away from him.

[Banditbandit]

A lot fewer of them defaulting on poorly considered loans.

And no GFC.

Couldn't possibly get more obvious than that.

Starting to sink in yet? Everyone else is correct, you're the one that's got it horribly wrong.

If you think that's al it would take to stop another GFC then you are sadly mistaken about the nature of Capitalism and the major financial fluctuations it creates ...