Front washing out

[SPP]

I'm getting around an inch of sag.

Front? that's not much. Try 30-35% of available travel as start point or road riding (probably around 35mm-40mm)

Whats the rear like?

Also check front rebound is not too quick (but don't be tempted to over do it).

[speeding_ant]

Front? that's not much. Try 30-35% of available travel as start point or road riding (probably around 35mm-40mm)

Whats the rear like?

Also check front rebound is not too quick (but don't be tempted to over do it).

I'll have to properly measure sag then. The forks and shock are simple, no rebound adjustments available. I'll have to check how much travel I have first... I'd presume 5" front, no idea what the rear would be.

[SPP]

When having problems in corners the first place to look is you. Mid-corner try wiggling your fingers and flapping your elbows. If you're arms are locked up you could be steering the bike so relax.

Next, find someone to ride it and watch you ride; someone who knows what they're doing. Do they think it's poos too?

If you're still not happy with the bike I'd start from the last change. Problem is you've changed everything all at once? (tyre model, shock, shock length?, preload, fork height). Some experimenting is on the cards then. A track is good for that. Play with geometry as well as damping... oh no damping adjustment.

As that rocket dude said, not enough front end dive or choppered and bike will be reluctant to turn in and drift wide on entry. When you release the brake and get on the throttle the front shouldn't pop up too quickly. If it does and you trail brake then that feels a little like a washing tyre too.

[Mushu]

As far as I'm aware I do that already I've read those books and watched the videos, but I'm not going out there to race - just have a bit of fun on the twisties. I've been riding for a while, but I'm self taught. Probably have picked up a few bad habits on the way.

You did say in your earlier post you keep a steady throttle, I assumed you meant constant throttle.
According to Keith Code the throttle rule applies on all bikes in all situations except possibly downhill decreasing radius corners (and when traffic makes it impossible). It's all to do with the geometry of a motorcycle the physics are quite complicated but it comes down to the rear wheel actually turns the bike, the front only initiates the turn (in the video they show a clip of a race bike turning with the front wheel in the air to illustrate this).

Of course it could be something else but it's still a good idea to be sure it's not your riding before you blame the bike, I had a few front end washouts on the ninja and I had to sort it out before I could trust myself riding the R6. In my case the ninja was brand new so I knew it was my fault.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[speeding_ant]

You did say in your earlier post you keep a steady throttle, I assumed you meant constant throttle.
According to Keith Code the throttle rule applies on all bikes in all situations except possibly downhill decreasing radius corners (and when traffic makes it impossible). It's all to do with the geometry of a motorcycle the physics are quite complicated but it comes down to the rear wheel actually turns the bike, the front only initiates the turn (in the video they show a clip of a race bike turning with the front wheel in the air to illustrate this).

Of course it could be something else but it's still a good idea to be sure it's not your riding before you blame the bike, I had a few front end washouts on the ninja and I had to sort it out before I could trust myself riding the R6. In my case the ninja was brand new so I knew it was my fault.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

I would like to see if it is my riding as that's the cheapest thing I could do

How did you sort it out?

[speeding_ant]

When having problems in corners the first place to look is you. Mid-corner try wiggling your fingers and flapping your elbows. If you're arms are locked up you could be steering the bike so relax.

Next, find someone to ride it and watch you ride; someone who knows what they're doing. Do they think it's poos too?

If you're still not happy with the bike I'd start from the last change. Problem is you've changed everything all at once? (tyre model, shock, shock length?, preload, fork height). Some experimenting is on the cards then. A track is good for that. Play with geometry as well as damping... oh no damping adjustment.

As that rocket dude said, not enough front end dive or choppered and bike will be reluctant to turn in and drift wide on entry. When you release the brake and get on the throttle the front shouldn't pop up too quickly. If it does and you trail brake then that feels a little like a washing tyre too.

Thanks for the advice - I'll try this.

Re: mods, no major geometry changes have been made - and I've made small changes over 6 months. The bike has retained more or less the same characteristics, but at least the ride quality has improved and the traction from the M3s is far superior to the old Shinko's that were on there.

I think the biggest thing I can do right now is ensure that I've got the sag set correctly front and back, which is a good point made.

[Hugo Nougo]

Hi Mr Ant, good to see you're still with us, as too the wear on your tyres it looks pretty normal, if your setup was causing the front to "wash-out" there would be some distinctive scratch marks at that point on the tyre and you would probably have crashed by now, as to uneven chicken strips between front and rear just check out a few other bikes and I think you'll find it's normal, my s20 bridgestones on the 636 are not the same, remember the tyre profiles are different but designed to compliment each other.
How does it feel through the bars, does the front want to tuck in?, if so you'll feel yourself pushing more on the inside of the bar when leaned into the corner.

[speeding_ant]

Hi Mr Ant, good to see you're still with us, as too the wear on your tyres it looks pretty normal, if your setup was causing the front to "wash-out" there would be some distinctive scratch marks at that point on the tyre and you would probably have crashed by now, as to uneven chicken strips between front and rear just check out a few other bikes and I think you'll find it's normal, my s20 bridgestones on the 636 are not the same, remember the tyre profiles are different but designed to compliment each other.
How does it feel through the bars, does the front want to tuck in?, if so you'll feel yourself pushing more on the inside of the bar when leaned into the corner.

Cheers

Through the bars, around a slower right hand bend (40km/h), it feels like the front tyre is slipping away to the left. It's relatively gradual, enough that I can "catch" it and move my weight inwards. I've had this happen three times now, enough that I've lost confidence.

Through 'higher speed' twisties (small incline, gradual corners, good surface) it feels good, though through the bars I feel the front is quite slow to react to my commands. Quite a vague feeling I guess.

I was told I could sharpen the front up a little by dropping the forks in their crown slightly. But I want to know if it's me first

I'm used to downhill mountain biking/trail riding, where a lot of my cornering is based on ensuring enough weight is on the front wheel to get traction to snap the bike into a corner. I guess road bikes are different...

[SPP]

I was told I could sharpen the front up a little by dropping the forks in their crown slightly. But I want to know if it's me first

I'm used to downhill mountain biking/trail riding, where a lot of my cornering is based on ensuring enough weight is on the front wheel to get traction to snap the bike into a corner. I guess road bikes are different...

Is the same. Sharpen the steering by lowering the front (raising the forks in the triples = lowering the triples on the forks)... you get it. You'll be able to feel a 5mm change.


edit: It's normal to see different sized "chicken strips" front to back. The only tyre I've ever had even strips was Dunlop Q2 and the rear on those are steep near the edge compared with most other tyres.

[speeding_ant]

Is the same. Sharpen the steering by lowering the front (raising the forks in the triples = lowering the triples on the forks)... you get it. You'll be able to feel a 5mm change.

Boom - I'll lower by another 5mm and see what difference that makes.

[SPP]

Boom - I'll lower by another 5mm and see what difference that makes.

No harm in trying. Go too far though and the bike will plough; you'll feel that too.

[speeding_ant]

No harm in trying. Go too far though and the bike will plough; you'll feel that too.

Sounds... exciting *pucker*

[Hugo Nougo]

Turning a motorcycle is exactly like your push bike, only with a throttle to back it up, check out some slow motion action from any racing, your bike runs a 120 or 130 front from memory (160 rear?)and might be why the steering feels slow or heavy, Honda generally build neutral steering bikes but those wheels sizes are normally found on much bigger bikes.

Trust your instincts, it sounds like somethings not right, I'd check wheel, steering and swing arm bearings first, dropping tyre pressure will ensure extra heat but will only add to the heavy steering issue.

[speeding_ant]

Turning a motorcycle is exactly like your push bike, only with a throttle to back it up, check out some slow motion action from any racing, your bike runs a 120 or 130 front from memory (160 rear?)and might be why the steering feels slow or heavy, Honda generally build neutral steering bikes but those wheels sizes are normally found on much bigger bikes.

Trust your instincts, it sounds like somethings not right, I'd check wheel, steering and swing arm bearings first, dropping tyre pressure will ensure extra heat but will only add to the heavy steering issue.

Yeah 130 16" front, 180 17" rear. First thing I checked was bearings - they're fine thankfully. The rear shock bush was done for - but ended up replacing the entire shock.

I just found the front axle is bent (which ended up being the reason for a warped rotor, damnit), and have a replacement on the way. Checked forks - they're straight.

Thanks for all the advice, really appreciate it.

[Hugo Nougo]

5mm will sharpen the steering but be aware that it could result in more tyre wear, mid-corner stability especially if hitting bumps, and of course hi-speed stability. If there is a physical problem with the bike it could at worst lead to a tank-slapper. I know it's only 5mm but I have gone down this path before, 5mm was good, 10mm must be better!, bike was unrideable over 180k (Gpz900)