Turkey - TPTB want a mall in the park

[blue rider]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vide...otesters-video video of police marching in on the "rioters" aka citizens not happy with the current government

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...rotesters?lite......tear gas to clear protesters....like the face decoration of the journalist.

http://audioboo.fm/boos/1444685-lawy...istanbul-court laywers getting arrested in court - witness account

http://rt.com/news/turkish-police-la...ourthouse-534/ russian tv, video of laywers getting arrested.....

and for those that say ...rt .....russian tv, well here is the turkish version of 49 laywers getting arrested in a courhouse....

http://www.milliyet.tv/video-izle/Ca...unUty07q4.html

and a bit of facebook because I can

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyGezi?...ation=timeline


freedom, democracy blahblahblah

the park that is to be removed, also houses the Ataturk cultural Centre - Kemal Ataturk, as in the Father of secular Turkey.
Dear beloved Leader of all Turks, Tayep Erdogan, would like to build a Museum commemorating the Ottoman Empire, a shopping mall and a Temple......move along

nothing to see here

freedom, democracy blahblahblah

[blue rider]

but maybe all this has only come because of this


http://www.eurasianet.org/node/67098

don't mess with peoples alcohol consumption.....lol

[mashman]

Interesting.
Why don't you give us some background?
Planning applications and that sort of thing...

Why do I need background when there are thousands of people who decided to take to the streets to protest? Needless to say their protest was welcomed with open arms, and batons, and tear gas, and pepper spray, and water cannons etc... without provocation I might add. You cannot protest was the message from the govt, get fucked was the message from the people. Tis more than enough for me to claim that this was not a democratic process. It signals quite the opposite given the various protests over how people are being treated over the last few years, let alone the last few decades. I'm sure you'll realise this given all of the books you read.

[Oscar]

Why do I need background when there are thousands of people who decided to take to the streets to protest? Needless to say their protest was welcomed with open arms, and batons, and tear gas, and pepper spray, and water cannons etc... without provocation I might add. You cannot protest was the message from the govt, get fucked was the message from the people. Tis more than enough for me to claim that this was not a democratic process. It signals quite the opposite given the various protests over how people are being treated over the last few years, let alone the last few decades. I'm sure you'll realise this given all of the books you read.

So you supported the Ayotollahs takeover in Iran?
Coz your description fits that revolution to a tee.


Notwithstanding that, feel free to let the inter-web do your thinking for you.
You're a very shallow pool of thought, ain't you?

[mashman]

So you supported the Ayotollahs takeover in Iran?
Coz your description fits that revolution to a tee.


Notwithstanding that, feel free to let the inter-web do your thinking for you.
You're a very shallow pool of thought, ain't you?

I am not a historian.

[Oscar]

I am not a historian.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

George Santayana


It is also an event that almost certainly happened in your lifetime - you would have had to be living in a cave to be unaware of it. I suppose in your case that would explain a lot...

[mashman]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

George Santayana


It is also an event that almost certainly happened in your lifetime - you would have had to be living in a cave to be unaware of it. I suppose in your case it would explain a lot...

Those who live in the past limit their future.

Silly saying given that it blatantly isn't true, but he does play a mean guitar.

I was 9 and the world was in the hands of capable people up until about 5 years ago.

[blue rider]

[QUOTE=Oscar;1130562303]So you supported the Ayotollahs takeover in Iran?
Coz your description fits that revolution to a tee.QUOTE]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Ir...'%C3%A9tat

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état (known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup[3]) was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iran, and its head of government Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the United Kingdom (under the name 'Operation Boot') and the United States (under the name TPAJAX Project).[4][5] The coup saw the formation of a military government under Mohammad-Rezā Shāh Pahlavi, who progressed from a constitutional monarch to an authoritarian one who relied heavily on United States support to hold on to power until his own overthrow in February 1979.[6]

In 1951, Iran's oil industry was nationalized with near-unanimous support of Iran's parliament in a bill introduced by Mossadegh who led the nationalist parliamentarian faction. Iran's oil had been controlled by the British-owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), now known as BP.[7] Popular discontent with the AIOC began in the late 1940s: a large segment of Iran's public and a number of politicians saw the company as exploitative and a vestige of British imperialism.[8] Despite Mosaddegh's popular support, Britain was unwilling to negotiate its single most valuable foreign asset, and instigated a worldwide boycott of Iranian oil to pressure Iran economically.[9] Initially, Britain mobilized its military to seize control of the Abadan oil refinery, the world's largest, but Prime Minister Clement Attlee opted instead to tighten the economic boycott[10] while using Iranian agents to undermine Mosaddegh's government.[11] With a change to more conservative governments in both Britain and the United States, Churchill and the U.S. Eisenhower administration decided to overthrow Iran's government though the predecessor U.S. Truman administration had opposed a coup.[12] Classified documents show British intelligence officials played a pivotal role in initiating and planning the coup, and that Washington and London shared an interest in maintaining control over Iranian oil.

and you did support the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iran by the Cia.....before the Sha was installed, which lead to the subsequent revolution lead by Ayatolla Khomeni?

[Oscar]

[QUOTE=blue rider;1130562321]

So you supported the Ayotollahs takeover in Iran?
Coz your description fits that revolution to a tee.QUOTE]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Ir...'%C3%A9tat





and you did support the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iran by the Cia.....before the Sha was installed, which lead to the subsequent revolution lead by Ayatolla Khomeni?

I was referring to the second one, and the fact that Mashies description of a popular uprising was very similar to Iran in 1979, which eventually lead to harsh Sharia law..

[Oscar]

Those who live in the past limit their future.

.

I guess would argue about that all day.
However since you seem to have very little knowledge of the world, even as it stands today, I'd be wasting my time.
For example, how can you comment about the current regime in Iran or Turkey if you don't know how it got there?

[Banditbandit]

You are correct - it is not democracy as we know it.
It is also not "the death of democracy", as Mushbrain so breathlessly insists.
The eventual outcome of this may actually re-inforce Turkish democracy and human rights. Either that, or tip Turkey back into the realm of the Generals or the Mullahs. This process has been going on since Attaturk took over, and the question is - which way will Turkey go, European Democracy or Middle Eastern / Muslim / Sharia failed state.

I was attempting to get Mushbrain to actually back up his hyperbole by providing facts (for a change).

So ... you are not really about debating the issues ... you're just baiting Mashie ????

[Oscar]

So ... you are not really about debating the issues ... you're just baiting Mashie ????

Moi?

Baiting Mashie?

That would be Troll on Troll action, wouldn't it?

Anyway, I do find the situation to be interesting.
As I said: The eventual outcome of this may actually re-inforce Turkish democracy and human rights. Either that, or tip Turkey back into the realm of the Generals or the Mullahs. This process has been going on since Attaturk took over, and the question is - which way will Turkey go, European Democracy or Middle Eastern / Muslim / Sharia failed state.

[Akzle]

which way will Turkey go, European Democracy or Middle Eastern / Muslim / Sharia failed state.

you say that as though democracy is/does/did not cause failed states...

[Ocean1]

you say that as though democracy is/does/did not cause failed states...

By definition a democracy has failed only if a significant majority of the population don't select the government.

There's been plenty of democracies that failed because they weren't actually democracies. A whole slew of African examples spring to mind.

There's also been plenty of democracies that failed as a result of armed force, but I can't think of any that failed from any other cause.

[mashman]

So ... you are not really about debating the issues ... you're just baiting Mashie ????

No way, no fuckin way, you take that back... he r very serious about edumacationalising me.