Ecotrons Engine Management

[TZ350]

Advanced - Add Advanced Calibrations - Drop Down Menu - Read the descriptions at the bottom of the screen.

Speedpro is this the one your looking for?

[speedpro]

one of them.

[speedpro]

Strapped the bike on JC's dyno. Turned it over and checked the timing for cylinder #1 - looks good. checked timing for cylinder 2 - looks good!!! Tipped some fuel in, worked the bubbles out of the lines, turned it with the dyno, dropped the clutch and vroom vroom. No modifications from the original Kawasaki 250 Ninja kit and it fired up immediately.

There's a few things need sorting but the basics are there. It will not hold a steady low rpm and with the slightest whiff of throttle jumps to 6-8000rpm and the spark advances 30 odd degrees. Something has happened to it now and it only fires for a second when turning it over. The rotor may have come loose or maybe a bit of crap has got in the injectors. It did run for 10 minutes or so but with the generator rotor just perched on the end of the crank I wasn't doing anything adventurous.

I need to go over the logs a bit to see what is going on but I'm smiling for a bit now.

[speedpro]

Had a good look at the bike and thought possibly the crank pickup connector pins might have been touching the engine. I haven't fitted the spades to the connector properly yet as I was uncertain of the polarity. Bit of tape and all sorted. Made a fuel tank from an old turps container, purged the fuel system of air bubbles and gave it a go. It's just sitting on stands, put in 3rd gear, and the back wheel spun. It fires immediately.

First thing I noticed was that it had the same problem as yesterday where it would die if the throttle was closed but revved quickly with the tiniest throttle movement. I also noticed that the fuel PW was going to "0". To fix that I've changed the "fuel decal cutoff" rpm to max of about 5000rpm. Problem solved, now idles at about 4000rpm. Small manual adjustment needed there but no problem. Now if revved say to 7000rpm, when the throttle is released it goes all quiet as the fuel is cut and then as the revs fall below 5000rpm the noise resumes. The throttle response is amazing even with the heavy generator rotor perched on the end of the crank. Previous testing with the carbs fitted was with just a very small trigger on the crank and even then it was comparatively very sluggish though there was no airbox so the carbs weren't being helped at all.

My initial impression was that the tuning was going to be difficult but as Sketchy suggested I am starting already to get a handle on using the dropdown menus. I want to change the ignition timing as well for the lower rpm range over the full load range. I've already done it and the configuration is ready to load to the ECU. It was pretty straight forward, pulled up the ignition map, right clicked, exported to CSV, copied the value I wanted to all cells in one step, saved it, reimported to the software. It took less time than it took me to type about doing it.

There is also a fuel enrichment dependant on engine temp. I have the sensor attached to a convenient unused 6mm hole on the block. Even with the Yamaha water temp showing that it's all warmed up the sensor is only showing 45 degrees and the ECU is adding about 30-50% extra fuel. Easy to change though, pulled up the single line table and told it to add 0% extra above 30 degrees. As it warmed up it developed a patch where it didn't want to idle so well, so will add a bit of fuel just at 30 degrees.

Hopefully uploaded a video here of it running: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIr65cBoHd0

Pretty stoked at the moment

[Drew]

Could the excessive throttle response, be the throttle position values being screwy?...If they are adjustable of course.

[speedpro]

Could the excessive throttle response, be the throttle position values being screwy?...If they are adjustable of course.

I actually like the throttle response now. Before it was more that it died with the fuel being cut off completely at any revs over about 1800rpm with no throttle and then with the smallest sniff of throttle it barked up again.

[F5 Dave]

Gee certainly doesn't sound like its doing those sort of revs does it? But I'm listening twice removed recording.

[speedpro]

Had a little explosion in the garage tonight.

Luckily it was just the bottom radiator hose. It seems that the clear plastic hose from Mitre10 isn't good enough. The motor was getting hot after running for some time while I was adjusting the ECU. It filled the garage with steam in a blink and made a proper bang sound. Parts of the garage floor are nice and clean now.

The engine is doing this thing where it hunts up to the "decal fuel cutoff" rpm then drops back as the fuel is cut and then it repeats. I've reduced the multiplication factors such as "warmup fuel" to zero above a certain temp and even started taking fuel out using the VE table. It got better and better but it looks like I might have got to the minimum injector on time. Definite improvement though. I'm trying to get a good stable idle so I have an idea where to go with the fuel and ignition. The low load/rpm values should roughly translate in the higher ranges.

One thing I like is the fuel multiplication factor. I haven't used it yet but it may be useful if I wanted to try some other type of fuel. Something to try later maybe.

Found a useful feature with the tables you can change "live". You seem to need the gauges displayed and then you open the table over them. The active cell is highlighted in yellow. I typed in new values in a couple of cells and could hear the engine note change. It'll be interesting on the dyno.

[Kornholio]

Cool thread... Not into buckets but this experimenting and stuff is quite interesting, was fascinated with Sketchy's thread(still think he should spend all his time racing superbikes but that's another story ) making his supercharger

Keep up the good work

[Drew]

Had a little explosion in the garage tonight.

Luckily it was just the bottom radiator hose. It seems that the clear plastic hose from Mitre10 isn't good enough. The motor was getting hot after running for some time while I was adjusting the ECU. It filled the garage with steam in a blink and made a proper bang sound. Parts of the garage floor are nice and clean now.

The engine is doing this thing where it hunts up to the "decal fuel cutoff" rpm then drops back as the fuel is cut and then it repeats. I've reduced the multiplication factors such as "warmup fuel" to zero above a certain temp and even started taking fuel out using the VE table. It got better and better but it looks like I might have got to the minimum injector on time. Definite improvement though. I'm trying to get a good stable idle so I have an idea where to go with the fuel and ignition. The low load/rpm values should roughly translate in the higher ranges.

One thing I like is the fuel multiplication factor. I haven't used it yet but it may be useful if I wanted to try some other type of fuel. Something to try later maybe.

Found a useful feature with the tables you can change "live". You seem to need the gauges displayed and then you open the table over them. The active cell is highlighted in yellow. I typed in new values in a couple of cells and could hear the engine note change. It'll be interesting on the dyno.

Have you sorted out a decent crank angle sensor/rotor thing yet? Any chance of 'float' there?

Just thinking about the low speed 'hunting' you describe.

Unless it runs an idle stepper motor, I would look mechanical before the ones and zeros. Crikey, nothing as simple as a poor seal at the throttle bodies is it?

[speedpro]

I haven't sorted out the rotor yet. I have a rotor from a different model FZR250 with a different internal taper which is otherwise the same as the correct rotor. It's keyed to the crank but doesn't fit as far on to the taper as the correct rotor. When I say low speed hunting I mean between 4-6000rpm. I've sent a log and two tables I've mdified to Matt at Ecotrons. I'm hoping he has some suggestions. I've checked the throttle bodies are installed in the boots properly and they seem OK. They are a tight fit and probably don't need the clamps. I might have another look. Without the wideband lambda sensor it's difficult to see what is happening with the mixture, plus I haven't even installed the narrow band lambda sensors the kit came with. They aren't used in the early stages after startup so probably not really an issue at the moment.

[Drew]

Righto, I shall eagerly await the next installment.

[Kornholio]

A few of us have these systems now. I thought it might be useful to have a separate thread to swap information. I'm just starting with mine on a 4 stroke twin that will eventually be turbo or supercharged, Rob has his 2 stroke single with triple injectors coming along, and Sketchy with his supercharged Honda clone.

I'm using a kit designed for a Kawasaki 250 Ninja. I already see a few possible problems with the triggering even though the FZR has 4 teeth on the flywheel the same as the Ninja, I'm not sure where the long tooth lies in relation to which cylinder is firing and then how many degrees after that the next one fires. On a 180degree twin the firing intervals are odd - 180deg and 540 deg. I'm sure it's configurable but I haven't got there yet.

[Dumb question]What sort of motor are you using? I see you have an FZR but I thought they were 4cyl and you have a twin... Some pics would be nice too. [/Dumb question]

Cheers

[Drew]

[Dumb question]What sort of motor are you using? I see you have an FZR but I thought they were 4cyl and you have a twin... Some pics would be nice too. [/Dumb question]

Cheers

It is an FZR with two slugs chopped off...Literally.

I always meant to ask, why run the two right hand slugs? Did you want the 270° firing sequence for any reason?

[Pumba]

Knowign that we have discussed this before a while ago I dug up a thread from a few years back with a few pics for you Kornholio.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...olling-chassis