Ecotrons Engine Management

[TZ350]

I am looking to install the ecotrons unit on a single 250cc 2 stroke. Would like to incorporate the control of ignition timing with the EFI. The ecotrons web site shows the compatible cdi system they offer has an upper rpm limit of 8,000 rpm's. Is that correct? If so has anyone found a way around the low rpm limit?

I have never tried the Ecotrons CDI system. But I suspect the 8,000 2T limitation is not in the software but in the aftermarket CDI box. The Ecotrons CDI box looks like an un restricted 4T scooter item where 16,000 4T rpm is pretty good.

The Ecotrons CDI is one of the 12V dc variety where the CDI internally develops its own high voltage just like my Ignitec does.



There is also an AC scooter CDI box (looks the same) where the high voltage is generated externally by some HV windings on the stator and triggered by a pulse coil. If you have a HV winding on your stator you might be able to try one of those and trigger it with the Ecotrons CDI trigger system.

Maybe using the Ecotrons CDI trigger signal for a mapped digital output and a purpose built CDI box might work.

I use the Ignitec 12VDC-CDI and run both the Ecotrons EFI system and the Ignitec CDI in parallel off the original engine ignition trigger and TPS.

[2005bully]

I have never tried the Ecotrons CDI system. But I suspect the 8,000 2T limitation is not in the software but in the aftermarket CDI box. The Ecotrons CDI box looks like an un restricted 4T scooter item where 16,000 4T rpm is pretty good.

The Ecotrons CDI is one of the 12V dc variety where the CDI internally develops its own high voltage just like my Ignitec does.



There is also an AC scooter CDI box (looks the same) where the high voltage is generated externally by some HV windings on the stator and triggered by a pulse coil. If you have a HV winding on your stator you might be able to try one of those and trigger it with the Ecotrons CDI trigger system.

Maybe using the Ecotrons CDI trigger signal for a mapped digital output and a purpose built CDI box might work.

I use the Ignitec 12VDC-CDI and run both the Ecotrons EFI system and the Ignitec CDI in parallel off the original engine ignition trigger and TPS.

I have been using the HPI digital ignition. For testing my preference is to use a single crankshaft trigger, with a constant loss battery powering both the ignition and EFI. But for right now I will retain the HPI ignition. The HPI stator does not appear to have separate trigger to tap into. I realize that if the input is received from a point after the CDI box the EFI input will follow the ignition timing curve. But can the primary input wire going to the coil be used? I did e-mail Ecotrons asking if there was a way to work around their ignitions low rpm limit.

[TZ350]

Just countersink the back of the plate and have fully threaded csk cap bolts sticking out.

I think you are stuck with having to make a proper trigger for the EFI. Maybe something like Wobs cap screw idea.

[bigbadbob]

Don't suppose this helps but the ecotrons Ninja 250 ECU I've re-puposed has a built in CDI which drives coils directly and revs to 15k+, maybe you could re-pupose one for your use. it takes it's trigger from the pickup coil.

[Lynxdragon]

could always go to megasquirt. I've played with a few and were very happy.


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[speedpro]

[QUOTE=bigbadbob;1130908266]Don't suppose this helps but the ecotrons Ninja 250 ECU I've re-puposed has a built in CDI which drives coils directly and revs to 15k+, QUOTE]

15K+ is what they say. In actual fact you can't configure the maps above 16K as this is the maximum value able to be entered into the tables. If indeed the system will allow revs over that value you are stuck with whatever parameters you have configured at 16K. I haven't been able to rev my engine over 15-16K but that may be due to tuning which is why I have been trying to make a brake dyno, for testing.

The ignition side is good with a big strong spark. I haven't had any problems with it yet and haven't suffered with loaded plugs despite having some odd tuning at times with starting from scratch.

Ecotrons have been quite helpful with alterations I have asked for to the software. I am just a bit annoyed with the answers I got prior to buying the system about the ability to rev and to handle boost. They probably never thought the engine was ever going to run so it wouldn't be a problem.

[TZ350]

could always go to megasquirt. I've played with a few and were very happy.

Yep Megasquirt would probably be good but this is a, how to get the best out of your Ecotrons thread.

[Drew]

Yep Megasquirt would probably be good but this is a, how to get the best out of your Ecotrons thread.

What if the best that can be got, is trading it for a Megasquirt?

[Lynxdragon]

I would agree, ecotrons is great to use the injectors, tps and oxy sensor from, but if you want higher rpm your probably going to have to bite it and use a megasquirt.


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[TZ350]

What if the best that can be got, is trading it for a Megasquirt?

...... probably true. LOL

I would agree, ecotrons is great to use the injectors, tps and oxy sensor from, but if you want higher rpm you're probably going to have to bite it and use a megasquirt.

Yes the injectors and other components are great.



This is a dyno graph of my Ecotrons 125cc 2T setup at different throttle positions. RPM is not an issue on the fuel side for me and 2T 12k rpm suggests that 4T 24k rpm is mechanically possible by Ecotrons.

But I don't have a lot of experience with Ecotrons ignition side as I continued to use my Ignitec system for lighting the fire. I suspect any issues with the Ecotrons 2T ignition side is in the CDI black box rather than the software.

[Lynxdragon]

slap another degree of advance on it. haha.


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[bigbadbob]

There is a max RPM calibration setting in procal, I assume you've wound that up

They probably never thought the engine was ever going to run so it wouldn't be a problem.

lol, mine too.

Excellent. video next . . .

Here you go speedpro-



not the best quality, done on my phone, but you get the idea.

[speedpro]

Running sweet, response is good.

[bigbadbob]

Speedpro- have you seen this-

www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a558274.pdf

Worth a read if you can wade through the bits that are irrelevent to us.

[2005bully]

I went ahead and got the CDI parts that Ecotrons recommended coming from them. Ecotrons tells me that the HPI ignition that I currently am using does not have a useable pick-up and suggested to instead use a constant loss battery with a Hall sensor. But today I got to looking on line and saw most of the oriental scooters have external flywheels, 12volt output for charging, and separate trigger coils located on the outside of the flywheel. Be sides that they are cheap. I do not know what the life of them would be, but for testing it might be just as easy to adapt one of them as it would be to make all the attachments for an independent trigger, plus I would have the alternator already built in. If the quality is not up to the task I would think that better replacements are available. I saw in past posts where the 6 volt versions could be re-wound to produce 12 volts. But since I'm going to purchase new.... does any one have a suggestion of a common oriental model that would best fit the application???? The motor is a 250cc running methanol, and will be use on a fixed gear race kart. As long as the unit will physically fit in the space.... adaptor plates or changing the flywheel tapers etc. is not a problem... Kermit Buller