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Thread: Ecotrons Engine Management

  1. #1
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    12th February 2004 - 10:29
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    Ecotrons Engine Management

    A few of us have these systems now. I thought it might be useful to have a separate thread to swap information. I'm just starting with mine on a 4 stroke twin that will eventually be turbo or supercharged, Rob has his 2 stroke single with triple injectors coming along, and Sketchy with his supercharged Honda clone.

    I'm using a kit designed for a Kawasaki 250 Ninja. I already see a few possible problems with the triggering even though the FZR has 4 teeth on the flywheel the same as the Ninja, I'm not sure where the long tooth lies in relation to which cylinder is firing and then how many degrees after that the next one fires. On a 180degree twin the firing intervals are odd - 180deg and 540 deg. I'm sure it's configurable but I haven't got there yet.

  2. #2
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    Yep, mine has been great for testing the supercharger bike, they do have their quirks though.

    When setting it up, make sure you have excellent grounding for the system, without it the noise from the ignition coil etc can make all sorts of odd things happen.

    If you experience a odd running condition, it is most likely that the Map file was corrupted when transferring from the PC to the ecu, just re-burn the map and it should solve it.

    The fuel factor ratio adjustment is far more sensitive than it would seem, a movement of 0.1 is probably close to 10 jet sizes. Also remember that this affects fuel mixture throughout the entire RPM/TPS range. It is great for getting the bike running but after tuning ideally should be set back to 1.

    USB extension leads on the cable suck, use a long RS232 cable.

    The extra fuel pump and wires a real pain the in arse, I am going for an internal fuel pump soon, using a fuel injected scooter pump/regulator to keep current draw down.

    I can't wait to get back into making the batch of superchargers, still working on supply for some parts then it will be all on!

    Cheers,

    -Sketchy


  3. #3
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    I haven't seen the fuel pump being a problem. I'd be interested in a bit more detail about the problems and also what option you are going to use. I've thought that the FI scooters must have some good stuff and the right size as well. The OEM bits will be a bit pricey though I'd think.

  4. #4
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    I'm interested to see how things pan out too.

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    2-Lambdachart.jpg

    EFI Lambda Chart ......
    - Team ESE -



  6. #6
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    The system is pretty well installed now. I have a battery connected just for testing and hope to turn it using a dyno to check for sparks and where they occur. Unfortunately I still don't have the correct alternator rotor for this crankshaft so can't fire it up yet. However the rotor I have for the smaller crank does fit on the end of the crank taper so good enough to test the triggering. One little problem I seem to have is that when I switch power on with no ground connection from the battery -ve, the fuel pump runs for a short period of time as it should. With the battery -ve connected directly to ground the fuel pump gets erratic starting if it will start at all. Possible wiring problem of course. I should go over my crimp connections with the soldering iron.

    I have a few options like simply swapping the coil connections from #1 to #2 or swapping which intake runner the MAP sensor is connected to if the sparks aren't close to where they should be. If that doesn't work I'm going to need to have a really good read of the tuning manual.

    I'm starting to see a drawback to this system in that it is difficult to decipher the parameters and the effects they have. It's sort of like a DOS system in a Windows world. It'll do it but finding out how isn't going to be easy.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedpro View Post
    I'm starting to see a drawback to this system in that it is difficult to decipher the parameters and the effects they have. It's sort of like a DOS system in a Windows world. It'll do it but finding out how isn't going to be easy.
    You'll get used to it, i thought it was shit to begin with but ive gotten used to it now.


  8. #8
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    I've spent a couple of days looking at the problem. I had the ECU bolted to an alloy bracket I made which was bolted to the chassis. With no ground wire from the battery -ve to chassis ground the fuel pump ran for 5 seconds at power on as it should but I measured 6vDC on the -ve terminal compared to the chassis, so obviously it needed to be connected to ground. This seemed to be required to provide a return circuit for the power supplied to the coils as well. The problem was when I connected it the fuel pump would not start. There was about 9mA flowing from battery -ve to chassis ground with power on. When spinning the engine by hand the fuel pump would run for 1-2seconds so obviously the crank pickup was being detected.

    What I've ended up doing is isolating the ECU case from chassis ground and connecting battery -ve to chassis ground as per the manual. So the ECU case now floats at about 6vDC. Now the fuel pump fires up at power on for 5 seconds, as before, plus it still runs for a short time each time the engine is turned, plus I have the battery -ve connected to chassis ground so hopefully the ignition will work as well. I couldn't see sparks as I turned the back wheel but I'm sure I could hear them.

    Lesson - the ECU case needs to be isolated from chassis ground.

    Time to hook a PC to it and turn it on the dyno to see what's going on.

  9. #9
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    I've put the bike on JC's dyno to turn the engine. Had a PC connected and monitored and recorded what was going on. The dyno starter motor doesn't have the grunt to continually spin the engine so it was just short bursts after the roller got turning with a bit of speed.

    Still got no spark even though the ECU indicates that it should. I suspect a wiring problem. I'm sure I read that the -ve side of the coils goes to ground and the ECU supplies +12v to the other side. I forgot my multimeter so couldn't check for any voltage on the coils. Apart from that it looks like it'll run. The MAP sensor cycles and everything else bounces up and down. Interesting that the injectors look to fire simultaneously as both injector waveforms are identical and in sync.

    If I can't get a rotor reasonably soon I'll make a rotor disc and bolt it to the inner hub I have that fits this crankshaft and just fire it up using total loss. It'll be OK on the dyno as I can hook up the battery charger.

    So, the call goes out again, if you have a Yamaha FZR loafing round I'm interested in the rotor.
    037000-2110 11FZ LKZ01 & 037000-2660 2KX LKZ12 are not the correct ones. If anyone has a FZR250 alternator rotor with different numbers on it I'd like to have a chat.

  10. #10
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    Woohoo, big fat sparks. Just turning it over by hand but the sparks look to be a bit erratic as to timing. It might need to turn a couple more times to get it's act together. Back to the dyno.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedpro View Post
    Woohoo, big fat sparks. Just turning it over by hand but the sparks look to be a bit erratic as to timing. It might need to turn a couple more times to get it's act together. Back to the dyno.
    Was the problem that you had the coils fed from the ECU, rather than grounding through it?
    Polemic....look it up

  12. #12
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    I needed to have one side of each coil supplied with +12V which is normal. I had it with one side of each coil grounded which was the only configuration I could find in the manuals, but of course they were CDI systems. I thought it was odd, certainly not normal but electrically no reason why not. Speaking to JC tonight and he was silly enough to let on that he has a little mill that he uses to make trigger discs so unless the correct rotor turns up on the doorstep I'll be making a disc this weekend and bolting it to the correct hub I have my cam timing degree wheel bolted to. I just need to confirm the timing of the trigger teeth on the Kawasaki Ninja which my Ecotrons system is built for.

  13. #13
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    Throttle cable?? It turns out that a Yamaha 125 scooter cable bolts to the Ecotrons throttle body like it was built for it. It also fits into a MB100 twist grip like it was built for it, and the length of the inner is perfect. The only downside is that being a scooter throttle cable it's about 2' too long so I've run a loop. Being Teflon lined it's still super smooth. Don't you love it when stuff you have lying round just drops in.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedpro View Post
    Don't you love it when stuff you have lying round just drops in.
    It's always AWESOME when ya don't have to make stuff to fit!
    Polemic....look it up

  15. #15
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    Has anybody looked at defining the trigger teeth arrangement in software? It looks like you need to have access to advanced features as the variables aren't listed.

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