David Bain vs The Crown - game over

[Swoop]

The thumbprint suggests scars not surface marks.

I'm not seeing it that way. Oddly, the direction of the marking appears to go the wrong way in the fingerprint compared to the photo.
Definately not scars or cuts, as the pathologist was known to be pedantic and photographed little markings on the body, but didn't find anything worthy of photographing on the fingers.

[leathel]

A post from else where...

It was a lucky guess when David Bain told 111 ambulance officer they are all dead, despite later saying he only saw two bodies
Again a lucky guess when DB told police officer they are all dead
The 25 minute gap between DB finding his family dead and calling 111 is in no way connected with trying to wash clothes and removed blood.
The bruise on David’s head and scratches on his chest and graze on his knee – none of which he could explain, were just a coincidence
The lens from his glasses found in Stephen’s room happened weeks ago and he never noticed OR someone else had borrowed the glasses
The lack of fresh injuries on Robin despite the massive struggle with Stephen is just the product of healthy living
David’s finger prints on the gun are from a previous time
David telling a friend he had premonition something bad was going to happen was a genuine psychic experience
Stephen’s blood on David’s clothing was nothing to do with the struggle – OR someone else borrowed his clothes
The lock and key to the rifle being found in David’s room is not relevant as they were obviously placed there
Robin decided to wash David’s green jersey to remove blood and the fibres from jersey found under Steven’s finger nails
David’s bloody palm print on the washing machine was from him checking the bodies
The Ambulance officer was wrong when he said in his opinion Bain was pretending to have a fit
Robin Bain would logically wear gloves to prevent fingerprints despite it being a murder-suicide
Robin Bain didn’t wear gloves as he loaded the magazine…then put on gloves to kill his family, then took them off without smudging the “magazine marks”.
That Robin Bain would type a message on a computer for David telling him he is the only one who deserves to live, instead of writing a note. A hand written note incidentally would have cleared David.
Also that having just shot his family, and knowing David was due home, that Robin would wait 44 seconds for the computer to boot up to leave a message
Robin would decide David deserved to live, but go out of his way to frame him for murder
Robin Bain placed fibres from Davids jersey under Stephen’s finger nails
Robin would finish shooting his family, remove the magazine, place it on the ground carefully on standing upright on its side, then shoot himself so that when his body fell his hand was right beside the magazine which remained standing on its side.
Robin Bain would shoot himself with a gun in the most awkward way possible?
That Robin Bain changed jerseys after he had killed his family and in particular Stephen Bain, washed the jersey, hung it on the line and then change into a brown jersey before killing himself?
That there is a logical reason that David Bain can not account for the injuries on his face, the bruise or the scraped knee, yet knows he did not have them during his paper run.
That Robin Bain put blood on the inside of David’s duvet and on his light switch
That there is an innocent explanation for why David says he put on washing before he discovered the bodies, yet there is a blood print on the washing machine.
That Laniet was being paranoid when she told friends she was scared of David
That the “family meeting” David called the previous night and insisted everyone attended was not a way to make sure everyone would be at home to kill.
That Robin Bain would wear a hat while shooting himself in the head.
That even though David told a relative he hated his father, his father did not know this and deliberately decided David was the only one who deserved to live
That David either imagined hearing Laniet gurgling or she gurgled 20 minutes after death
That Laniet allegations of incent with Robin was true, as was her claims she had given birth three times by the age of 12 and a half.
That Robin Bain managed to kill four family members without a single trace of his blood, skin, or DNA being left at the scene.
That it is a coincidence that on the morning of the murders Bain took his dog onto a property, ensuring he would be noticed to give him an alibi.
That the magazine found balanced on an edge next to Robin was not placed there by David but fell onto its edge from Robin’s arms.
That a sickly Robin Bain managed to overpower his teenage son who put up a furious fight
That Robin Bain went and got the newspaper from outside, despite planning to shoot himself
That Robin Bain did all of the above without taking a piss.

I don't care either way but I also think you can look at that pic and come up with other answers and prove how they got there just as well.... given time and thought. You can use also sorts of bits of evidence but the whole picture still points more to David IMHO.... just to many F/ups from the boys in blue to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.??

[Maha]

Did you come up with that all by yourself or did Mom tell you what to type again?

Ah yes, the old 'Whoops, just made myself sound stupid so I'll pretend I was trolling' trick.

You guys could get together with scumdog and make a threesome.

... you two make Akzle look all grown up and shit

[scissorhands]

Shooting sprees are normally committed by pariah losers with no friends, depressed and angry with the world. Much like Robin was.

David was relatively emotionally happy, well adjusted and social, I believe. I think he was active in school clubs and had friends and a girlfriend of sorts

Robin had already been accustomed to violating and controlling his family for many years.

He was a monster of the worst kind, up there with that paedophile northland headmaster

Often autocratic family heads and cult leaders instruct or facilitate the suicide and genocide of their family and tribal units

Based on David and Robins pre killings characters, Robin would surely be the likely pick of the two

[Edbear]

Really?

I thought the issue of the validity of prints being presented as evidence had already been mentioned in this thread.

Were there any prints on the magazine?

Well, unless he cleaned it after he killed hisself...

[scissorhands]

Maybe what Laniet was fearful of was David blowing the story on Dad
This would be a likely motive for Robin to kill

But, yeah you never know

[MisterD]

Robin had already been accustomed to violating and controlling his family for many years.

He was a monster of the worst kind, up there with that paedophile northland headmaster

Objection: Hearsay (not to mention contradicted by people that knew him)

Often autocratic family heads and cult leaders instruct or facilitate the suicide and genocide of their family and tribal units

It was David who was the dominant personality in the household, and it was David that Laniet lived in fear of.

[Drew]

It was David who was the dominant personality in the household, and it was David that Laniet lived in fear of.

Objection. Hearsay!

[MisterD]

Objection. Hearsay!

Well yes, strictly speaking, but the source is direct evidence from a school friend of Laniet's I just can't find the reference at the moment.

[Edbear]

TV3 showed the thumbprint, I think it was Campbell Live.
One of the marks on Robins thumb showed up pretty strongly on the print.

Which does indicate a cut, not residue.

Oh yes, the prints were released today, no secrets there.


Here is the thing which really annoys me though - the TV3 people did not talk to the police or ask for a response to these startling revelations before televising the show. I watched it and kept waiting for them to introduce another explanation or at least some sort of prosecution response. Journalists are trained to provide both sides but seemingly that gets forgotten...


“Police:

However, I am mindful that this theory has been put forward through a programme whose makers chose not to seek comment from police prior to broadcast, and who also refused to provide details about their story when approached by police on Tuesday.


“Had they done so then we would have pointed out that fingerprints had been presented in evidence and have always been available through the court to help them decide if their story stacked up.”

Funny the David camp chooses now to bring this up.

I agree here, this is bloody proof that our media is dictating how we think. A couple of reminders, firstly the police persued the murder suicide theory but struggled getting the evidence to show this, and secondly (and my personal favourite) Robin Bain hadf a full bladder when he died, I dont know about you young chaps but the first thing I do every morning is have a piss and that is not a conscious choice but ingrained through the years. So here is a 50 something man getting out of bed and deciding to shoot his entire family, but he doesn't piss first. This just doesn't do it for me. BTW if Robin was so keen to leave only one family member alive why did he then go to the hassle of setting up so much evidence against him.
I still firmly believe that David is guilty and feel sorry for the memory of Robin Bain, he hasn't had the chance to keep shouting his innocence until people believe him.

Which relies on the equally improbable scenario of his body after death landing in such a position so as not only avoid knocking over the magazine but so that his fingertips are within millimeters of touching it.

Careful you are introducing logical thought to this thread, that's not the KB way...

Actually. The uncle has a 22 he bought second hand (at a police auction ) in '78.
The only thing close to maintenance is a bit of engine oil on the bolt when it stops working...
Its not a weapon. Its a tool. Like

Did you miss the bit about only David's and Stephen's prints being found on the gun?

[oneofsix]

Which does indicate a cut, not residue.

The photos () show residual, so what if there was a cut under it or close to? If a micro abrasion cut as the suggest it could have even been caused by loading both and then reloading at least one magazine

Funny the David camp chooses now to bring this up.

They didn't. They were as surprised as the and prosecution, even if pleased.

Careful you are introducing logical thought to this thread, that's not the KB way...

Given what you are calling logic there would be no threat there.

Did you miss the bit about only David's and Stephen's prints being found on the gun?

Did you miss the bit about all the other prints on the gun and the bit about Robin having recently used the gun?

[Banditbandit]

Well yes, strictly speaking, but the source is direct evidence from a school friend of Laniet's I just can't find the reference at the moment.

It still has no more or no less weight than what was said about Robin fucking his daughter ..

[scissorhands]

Maybe David was too, weird religion and all

[Madness]

... you two make Akzle look all grown up and shit

Tell me, do you two wear matching onesies when you're on here during winter?

[Edbear]

The photos () show residual, so what if there was a ...


Did you miss the bit about all the other prints on the gun and the bit about Robin having recently used the gun?

Did you read this? http://www.justice.govt.nz/media/in-...in...A.../file

It is a link to the complete trial and appeal records.

Notable is a comment by the Appeals Court:

"There is no evidence positively implicating Robin Bain on any tenable basis. Motive and the state of his mind must be seen in that light. Those matters could not possibly be seen by a reasonable jury as producing a reasonable doubt as to David's guilt which is so clearly proved by the combination of affirmative poinbts to which we have drawn attention."

Also noted and never answered is the fact that;

"David confidently denied matters that he could not remember even though they actually happened." David said they did not happen when in fact they did.

And in the case of Robin Bain;

"no-one else's blood was found on him."
"No gunpowder traces were found on his hands."
"His fingerprints were not on the rifle."

Now can any bright spark here tell us how Robin did it in the light of these facts?