David Bain vs The Crown - game over

[98tls]

Best post of the whole thread.All this speculation about some marks on the fathers hand means shite compared to the evidence pointing towards David Bains guilt.

[Smifffy]

Best post of the whole thread.All this speculation about some marks on the fathers hand means shite compared to the evidence pointing towards David Bains guilt.

Waiting for the: "Edited by admin. Reason:removed quoted inline media" edit to appear.

PS I think the quoted inline media gives the post much better context and should remain.

[Mushu]

Surprising so many are sure of David Bains guilt there are a lot of problems in the prosecutions arguments, I've read all the reports the only thing that points to David really is the fact he is alive,

Prints on the gun: it's Davids gun. (my prints are on everything I own) and there were several other prints that were not up to evidence standard and the blood (that had the prints in it) was proven to be non human

Bloody footprints: too small to be Davids. Both of Davids socks had blood on them and only left footprints were found (from after the paper round, no blood in his shoes)

washed his clothes: it was dark in the laundry, it was his job, the Jersey didn't fit him and why would he have gone to the trouble but forgot to clean the bloody hand prints off the washing machine and the detergent box

The trigger lock on the rifle: David says he was the only one who knew where the key was, but there were several fired and live rounds in robins caravan and he kept it in a jar on his desk, not too hard to find, but why would he say that if he's lying about so much else.

the position of the mag: the fact that it is strangely positioned doesn't prove anything. Robins just as likely to have put it there. Why wouldn't David have just dropped it, surely if he'd used it to put the marks on robins finger and thumb he would have mentioned it during the years he sat in jail. It could be possible that robin misfired a round and switched magazines and placed the mag on the floor while attempting to shoot himself in the side of the head

The misfired round near robins body: If robin were praying how does David clear the misfired bullet without robin doing anything about it.

And even if you can't prove him innocent you can prove the police negligent in this case and given he did 13 years I think he should be compensated by the police for robbing him of his defense by mishandling and destroying evidence.

Think about it if he's guilty and got away with it, it's the police's fault, if they hadn't destroyed the evidence it could all be retested with current methods.
If he's innocent, in one day he lost his entire family and a large portion of his life to prison and even now that he's out he can never lead a normal life, everybody in NZ has an opinion on whether or not he did it and he will be recognized everywhere he goes

[Katman]

All this speculation about some marks on the fathers hand means shite compared to the evidence pointing towards David Bains guilt.

As Mushu has pointed out above "the evidence pointing towards David Bains guilt" is weak at best.

Even the broken glasses (which were David's mother's by the way) prove nothing.

A cynic could even be forgiven for wondering if the Bain investigation team had their own version of Detective Hutton working for them. Why was there undue haste in destroying evidence before the normal timeframe?

Do you not think, if the evidence was as strong against David Bain as you seem to think it is, that he would still be in jail now?

[scumdog]

"Must spread..." for the Tuis board by unstuck!

[Murray]

As Mushu has pointed out above "the evidence pointing towards David Bains guilt" is weak at best.

Perhaps you can find some answers to some of the other questions in post #41 as well (there are a few)

And also advise why he never took the stand??

[scissorhands]

post 41 quoted below

Did anyone ever expect the journo to present a balanced unbiased story? How naive.
I've got a novel idea, why not let the jury hear (and the press report) ALL the evidence... Any of the keyboard experts know how much was excluded? I don't.
And remembering this is real life and not CSI with CCTV and Horatio isn't interviewing for admissions, there will be gaps BUT despite all the legal protections the defence could claim, was it still proven beyond a REASONABLE doubt...

This was posted elsewhere from the few facts the press reported... make up your own mind

It was a lucky guess when David Bain told 111 ambulance officer they are all dead, despite later saying he only saw two bodies

Again a lucky guess hen DB told police officer they are all dead

The 25 minute gap between DB finding his family dead and calling 111 is in no way connected with trying to wash clothes and removed blood.

The bruise on David’s head and scratches on his chest and graze on his knee – none of which he could explain, were just a coincidence

The lens from his glasses found in Stephen’s room happened weeks ago and he never noticed OR someone else had borrowed the glasses

The lack of fresh injuries on Robin despite the massive struggle with Stephen is just the product of healthy living

David’s finger prints on gun are from a previous time

David telling a friend he had premonition something bad was going to happen was a genuine psychic experience

Stephen’s blood on David’s clothing was nothing to do with the struggle – OR someone else borrowed his clothes

Robin managed to execute his family on a full bladder

The lock and key to the rifle being found in David’s room is not relevant as they were obviously placed there

Robin decided to wash David’s green jersey to remove blood and the fibres from jersey found under Steven’s finger nails

David’s bloody palm print on the washing machine was from him checking the bodies

The Ambulance officer was wrong when he said in his opinion Bain was pretending to have a fit

Robin Bain would logically wear gloves to prevent fingerprints despite it being a murder-suicide

That Robin Bain would type a message on a computer for David telling him he is the only one who deserves to live, instead of writing a note. A hand written note incidentally would have cleared David.

Also that having just shot his family, and knowing David was due home, that Robin would wait 44 seconds for the computer to boot up to leave a message

Robin would decide David deserved to live, but go out of his way to frame him for murder

Robin Bain placed fibres from Davids jersey under Stephen’s finger nails

Robin Bain would shoot himself with a gun in the most awkward way possible?

That Robin Bain changed jerseys after he had killed his family and in particular Stephen Bain, washed the jersey, hung it on the line and then change into a brown jersey before killing himself?

That there is a logical reason that David Bain can not account for the injuries on his face, the bruise or the scraped knee, yet knows he did not have them during his paper run.

That Robin Bain put blood on the inside of David’s duvet and on his light switch

That there is an innocent explanation for why David says he put on washing before he discovered the bodies, yet there is a blood print on the washing machine.

That Laniet was being paranoid when she told friends she was scared of David

That the “family meeting” David called the previous night and insisted everyone attended was not a way to make sure everyone would be at home to kill.

That Robin Bain would wear a hat while shooting himself in the head.

That even though David told a relative he hated his father, his father did not know this and deliberately decided David was the only one who deserved to live

That David either imagined hearing Laniet gurgling or she gurgled 20 minutes after death

That Laniet allegations of incent with Robin was true, as was her claims she had given birth three times by the age of 12 and a half.

That Robin Bain managed to kill four family members without a single trace of his blood, skin, or DNA being left at the scene.

That it is a coincidence that on the morning of the murders Bain took his dog onto a property, ensuring he would be noticed to give him an alibi.

That the magazine found balanced on an edge next to Robin was not placed there by David but fell onto its edge from Robin’s arms.

That a sickly Robin Bain managed to overpower his teenaged son who put up a furious fight

That Robin Bain went and got the newspaper from outside, despite planning to shoot himself


David bain has been found not guilty as a result of a concerted effort to create doubt in the mind of the public and jurors. Oh yeah the jurors, none of whom will not have heard of the case prior to the trial. yeah sure the evidence from back then was a little obscure, but why the fuck would the Dad have done the whole family and left Little Davey alive, there is no way he would have, Father and Son loathed each other, and David would have been the first one to have got a bullet, but as he didn't then it proves to me that Dad was the first one that got the bullet and then David lost it completely he was aware the family saw what he had done, he panicked and fried the lot of them, if only one of them had survived.

Then that lone family member, could have cast the stone at David and shown im for the cold caculating murderer he is.

He is the guiltiest fucker I have ever seen, I have followed the case closely, Defence solicitors always glorify with making the evidence look abit shabby and then the judge says it has to go beyond reasonable doubt. The defence solicitors are as fucking guilty as those who they represent.

Having been a cop in England for 14 years, I wouldnt trust a defence solicitor as far as I could throw him, they have got new defence solicitors in on this case not the old ones, but they get the old cops in that are shaky on their memory, its all unfair.

Defence Solicitors are a law to themselves and got folk off for the most horrendous things, as they have cruel mischievious minds and are borne from the same mould as these murdering evil fuckers. They know the truth and twist it to get the bad guys off. You can thank them for these horrible folk walking the earth again....a lot of them go onto reoffend too.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but how the hell can Bain live with himself, and too all those Defence solicitors how the fuck can you sleep at night, knowing that you are defending someone who has done a henious crime.

A leopard will never change his spots and all this rehabilitation bollocks, never works crims have evil and calculating minds, they do wrong knowingly. They do not deserve to walk the earth with good mortals..........

AND...

Hmm there is one other point here. If David is innocent why did he not take the stand and let the jury see the "whites of his eyes". I know he doesn't have to but I would love to see him answer the following simple questions:

1. When you got home you said you saw your mother and father dead and could hear Laniet "gurgling". So why wait 20-25 minutes before calling 111?
2. When you did call 111, why did you say "they're all dead" when you said later that you only saw your mother and father?
3. Bearing in mind the above, how did you get your brother's blood on the back of your shirt?
4. Why did you turn the washing machine on before dialling 111?

I don't believe that this was a case of multiple murderers. In this case, David would have the perfect self defence case... so why not just simply tell police what happened?

Above all else, you have to remember that the jury can only make an interpretation on the evidence put to it. that evidence is what is left after being picked over, argued about and excluded. The jury will not get ALL the evidence.
also, when a jury acquits a person... that is a finding that the jury could not find the accused guilty beyond reasonable doubt on the evidence they were 'allowed' to see. Acquital is not a finding of innocence.

[Katman]

Perhaps you can find some answers to some of the other questions in post #41 as well (there are a few)

Fair enough.

It was a lucky guess when David Bain told 111 ambulance officer they are all dead, despite later saying he only saw two bodies

He said he only remembered seeing two bodies. Shock can do some pretty weird shit to your state of consciousness.

The 25 minute gap between DB finding his family dead and calling 111 is in no way connected with trying to wash clothes and removed blood.

According to the defence he didn't discover the bodies as soon as he entered the house. The washing was put on first. It was his job to do so.

The bruise on David’s head and scratches on his chest and graze on his knee – none of which he could explain, were just a coincidence

The marks on his body were explained as being due to his fainting in his room and falling between the bed and a set of drawers.

The lens from his glasses found in Stephen’s room happened weeks ago and he never noticed OR someone else had borrowed the glasses

They weren't his glasses.

The lack of fresh injuries on Robin despite the massive struggle with Stephen is just the product of healthy living

The coroner photographed a number of cuts on Robin Bain's hands.

David’s finger prints on gun are from a previous time

Well of course they would be - it was his gun.

David telling a friend he had premonition something bad was going to happen was a genuine psychic experience

If Laniet was planning to expose Robin Bain's incestuous affair with her then David's comment could have meant anything.

Stephen’s blood on David’s clothing was nothing to do with the struggle – OR someone else borrowed his clothes

David more than likely did come into contact with Stephen's body. It could just as easily have been after Stephen had been killed during David's period of memory loss.

Robin managed to execute his family on a full bladder

I can't see the relevance of the full bladder argument. Robin could easily have been up during the night for a piss and his bladder may not have been full enough to need immediate emptying in the morning.

The lock and key to the rifle being found in David’s room is not relevant as they were obviously placed there

The key to the rifle lock was kept in a jar on a desk in David's room. Not exactly a difficult place to find it and it's highly likely the trigger was unlocked while in David's room getting the key.

Robin decided to wash David’s green jersey to remove blood and the fibres from jersey found under Steven’s finger nails

David was quite open about the fact that the jersey was part of the washing he put in the machine.

David’s bloody palm print on the washing machine was from him checking the bodies

The blood on the washing machine was probably put there in the process of loading the bloody jersey.

The Ambulance officer was wrong when he said in his opinion Bain was pretending to have a fit

The defence allege that David fainted - not had a fit.

That Robin Bain would type a message on a computer for David telling him he is the only one who deserves to live, instead of writing a note. A hand written note incidentally would have cleared David.

So they had a computer - maybe it was easier to use than finding a pen and paper.

Also that having just shot his family, and knowing David was due home, that Robin would wait 44 seconds for the computer to boot up to leave a message

The prosecution ended up accepting that the computer could have been turned on quite some time before originally thought.

Robin Bain placed fibres from Davids jersey under Stephen’s finger nails

It wasn't David's jersey.

Robin Bain would shoot himself with a gun in the most awkward way possible?

With a silencer on the end of the rifle any way was going to be awkward.

That there is a logical reason that David Bain can not account for the injuries on his face, the bruise or the scraped knee, yet knows he did not have them during his paper run.

As already mentioned, it was alleged that they happened when David fainted.

That Robin Bain put blood on the inside of David’s duvet and on his light switch

It's highly likely that David touched a number of the dead bodies. The blood on his duvet and light switch could have gotten there quite innocently.

That there is an innocent explanation for why David says he put on washing before he discovered the bodies, yet there is a blood print on the washing machine.

From the bloody jersey that was in the washing basket.

That Laniet was being paranoid when she told friends she was scared of David

That could have meant anything.

That the “family meeting” David called the previous night and insisted everyone attended was not a way to make sure everyone would be at home to kill.

That just sounds like the police fitting snippets of information into a pattern that suited their agenda.

That Robin Bain would wear a hat while shooting himself in the head.

I wasn't aware that he was wearing on - but what difference would it make?

That David either imagined hearing Laniet gurgling or she gurgled 20 minutes after death

The prosecution ended up accepting that dead bodies can still emit noises some time after death.

That Laniet allegations of incent with Robin was true, as was her claims she had given birth three times by the age of 12 and a half.

I'm not aware of any evidence presented that disproved the incest theory.

That the magazine found balanced on an edge next to Robin was not placed there by David but fell onto its edge from Robin’s arms.

It could have been placed there just as easily by Robin.

[Katman]

Perhaps you can find some answers to some of the other questions in post #41 as well (there are a few)

Perhaps you could explain why the bloody sock prints were a different size to David's foot and why there wasn't any blood found on the inside of his running shoes.

Perhaps you could explain how, if the glasses had anything to do with Stephen's death, they had no traces of blood on them and were in fact described as 'dusty'.

Perhaps you could explain why David would shoot four of his family members, then go on his paper run and risk having Robin come into the house and discover the crime.

Perhaps you could explain what motive David had to shoot his entire family.

[Murray]

According to the defence he didn't discover the bodies as soon as he entered the house. The washing was put on first. It was his job to do so.

David was quite open about the fact that the jersey was part of the washing he put in the machine.

The blood on the washing machine was probably put there in the process of loading the bloody jersey.

Doesnt make sense, how did blood get on jersey and washing machine if according to you it was his first job on entering the house?

[Edbear]

post 41 quoted below

"That Robin Bain managed to kill four family members without a single trace of his blood, skin, or DNA being left at the scene."

And no blood or gunpowder residue was on him or his clothing. This from court reports.

Nicely avoided as usual by the usual.

Yeah I know...

[Katman]

Doesnt make sense, how did blood get on jersey and washing machine if according to you it was his first job on entering the house?

What if Robin wore the jersey and put it in the washing basket?

[Murray]

What if Robin wore the jersey and put it in the washing basket?

What if the C.I.A. masterminded it???

and lets put davids jesrsey that I have been wearing in the basket before I shoot myself??

[Katman]

"That Robin Bain managed to kill four family members without a single trace of his blood, skin, or DNA being left at the scene."

And no blood or gunpowder residue was on him or his clothing. This from court reports.

Nicely avoided as usual by the usual.

Yeah I know...

I wasn't asked to provide answers to every question Ed - I was asked to provide some answers.

I've never claimed to know all the answers.

I'm merely explaining why the Privy Council saw fit to order a retrial and why the second set of jurors found David not guilty.

Anyone who still insists that David is "guilty as sin" is doing so solely from a prejudiced viewpoint that has no grounding in factual evidence.

[Katman]

What if the C.I.A. masterminded it???

and lets but davids jesrsey that I have been wearing in the basket before I shoot myself??

Anyway, now it's your turn to answer some questions.