David Bain vs The Crown - game over

[Mushu]

Perhaps you can find some answers to some of the other questions in post #41 as well (there are a few)

And also advise why he never took the stand??

Firstly, the fact that David never took the stand is of no consequence, if he was happy to kill his family and lie to police he would have been capable of doing it under oath as well.

The fact that meteor is happy to have missed half the evidence and proclaim that he is guilty is interesting, given he claims to have been a UK police officer.

Robins bladder: plenty of experts have stated that this is normal for a man of his age with prostate problems, with an adrenalin high (which I'm sure you would experience while sneaking around killing your family) you become unaware of trivial things like the need to piss.

David guessing his family are dead: the first thing David did upon noticing (I forget what order he found them) was check on everyone else in the house so he already knew they were dead, then called 111.

Hearing Laniet gurgle: bodies tend to expel gases for up to an hour after death

The lock and key in Davids room: it was Davids gun, stored in his wardrobe, stands to reason that the lock would be left near where the rifle was picked up.

Blood on Davids clothes: has been attributed to innocent transfer from running room to room (I would expect franticly)

The timing of the computer: may have been turned on up to 5 minutes before David got home, one more instance of badly handled evidence.

Robin couldn't have fought off Steven: firstly Steven was 14 and robin was an active man (not sickly at all as stated in post #41) so robin was likely just as capable of fighting him as David, and the first bullet went through his hand and deeply grazed his skull, so Steven was severely injured at the start of this fight.

Claims of incest: never investigated at all, the lead investigator instructed others not to look in to it at all.

Davids injuries: David fainted in his room in the presence of the police, a natural reaction to the stress of the situation.

The computer message: there is nothing to suggest David and robin hated each other, there was a single argument over a chain saw. David was a hard working uni student, it is possible robin thought David deserved to live. And robin was the one who used the computer most and the only one who used it for anything besides video games.

All in all post #41 reeks of bias and a complete disregard for the facts, I especially like how meteor refers to the cops involved as being at a disadvantage because the defense team is new, the cops fucked this case up severely and destroyed several pieces of evidence that would have proven this case either way. including the bloody footprints, not doing gsr tests, not testing the blood under robins finger nails and most importantly burning down the house a mere 3 weeks after the murders

The police also decided on the Wednesday 2 days after the murders to charge David (this is before any test results were available) at that point it became about building a case against David rather than unbiased evidence collection.

[Katman]

All in all post #41 reeks of bias and a complete disregard for the facts.....

From a police officer?

Never!

[Mushu]

From a police officer?

Never!

That's why I don't trust the cunts, even if you're completely innocent there's no guarantee they'll see it that way, then you're fucked.

[Edbear]

I wasn't asked to provide answers to every question Ed - I was asked to provide some answers.

I've never claimed to know all the answers.

I'm merely explaining why the Privy Council saw fit to order a retrial and why the second set of jurors found David not guilty.

Anyone who still insists that David is "guilty as sin" is doing so solely from a prejudiced viewpoint that has no grounding in factual evidence.

It is the factual rather than conjectural evidence that convinces many he is guilty. What's more, I personally have difficulty in the claim that the prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt. The known and established facts so clearly incriminate David and exonerate Robin as to be more than reasonable. Remember no jury has ever considered Robin to be the killer. Only Karam and co suggest it and even they do not consider anyone else apart from Robin.

How can anyone explain the absence of blood and gunpowder residue on Robin and his clothing? He simply could not be the shooter on that fact alone.

[Flip]

I have some faith that the Jury got this one right.

If David is innoncent then he is very unlucky and should have got better Lawyers.

[Crasherfromwayback]

"I don't believe that this was a case of multiple murderers. In this case, David would have the perfect self defence case... so why not just simply tell police what happened?"



Ummmm...no. IF David wrestled the gun from Robin...and shot the fucker. What makes you think the poilice would believe that? Maybe David thought he'd get framed for them all and simply panicked. Then the lie got too big.

[Swoop]

That's why I don't trust the cunts, even if you're completely innocent there's no guarantee they'll see it that way, then you're fucked.

The number one rule when a policeman starts reading you your rights, and says "you have the right to remain silent"... DO SO.

Say nothing!

That TOP TIP comes from a police mate, not a lawyer.

[Katman]

"I don't believe that this was a case of multiple murderers. In this case, David would have the perfect self defence case... so why not just simply tell police what happened?"



Ummmm...no. IF David wrestled the gun from Robin...and shot the fucker. What makes you think the poilice would believe that? Maybe David thought he'd get framed for them all and simply panicked. Then the lie got too big.

Hmmm, maybe the misfired bullet next to Robin was from him trying to shoot David.

And in the same vein, maybe the computer message was written by David in a state of panic thinking that he would otherwise be automatically accused of all the deaths.

The plot thickens.

[scumdog]

That's why I don't trust the cunts, even if you're completely innocent there's no guarantee they'll see it that way, then you're fucked.

Enjoy!

[Drew]

Enjoy!

I can understand how a fellow such as yourself might not like that comment, but I've witnessed it.

You have to know it happens, surely?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hmmm, maybe the misfired bullet next to Robin was from him trying to shoot David.

And in the same vein, maybe the computer message was written by David in a state of panic thinking that he would otherwise be automatically accused of all the deaths.

The plot thickens.

I would've thought that upon finding your family dead...then fighting your father off and having to shoot him, that it'd be pretty easy to think in your obvious state of panic that you may well think you'd get blamed for them all and not want to tell the truth.

[Mushu]

"That Robin Bain managed to kill four family members without a single trace of his blood, skin, or DNA being left at the scene."

So many tests were not done that should have been, every member of that family had likely been in every room of that house, I find it hard to believe that nothing could have been found if the police were actually doing their jobs, and there is also none of Davids blood, skin or DNA found.

It is the factual rather than conjectural evidence that convinces many he is guilty. What's more, I personally have difficulty in the claim that the prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt. The known and established facts so clearly incriminate David and exonerate Robin as to be more than reasonable. Remember no jury has ever considered Robin to be the killer. Only Karam and co suggest it and even they do not consider anyone else apart from Robin.

How can anyone explain the absence of blood and gunpowder residue on Robin and his clothing? He simply could not be the shooter on that fact alone.

The initial investigation was actually a murder/suicide, it stands to reason the defense would continue along this line of reasoning.

The gsr tests were not immediately done and it is clear that if robin did it he cleaned himself up after and likely even wore the gloves found in Stevens room, it is likely that he had originally not planned to commit suicide untill after he had killed everyone else, or possibly just decided he wanted to die in clean clothes.

I have some faith that the Jury got this one right.

If David is innoncent then he is very unlucky and should have got better Lawyers.

The lawyer wasn't the problem, the polices mishandling if evidence removed any chance of proving this case either way conclusively. There was traces of blood under robins nails that was never tested, the offices watches were not syncronised so timing is far from exact, no gsr tests were done at the scene (and nobody tested positive when they were done) time of death wasn't established for any of the victims (although it is accepted that robin was last as his body was significantly warmer than the others). This is why I think David should be compensated, he was robbed of his defense by the police who investigated.

[Maha]

And in the same vein, maybe the computer message was written by David in a state of panic thinking that he would otherwise be automatically accused of all the deaths.

The plot thickens.

That would make David the one who turned the computer on, when, at the first trial, a witness had him on his paper round 3 minutes? prior to the Bain computer being turned on.

The Crown would have David in your scenario, the Defence would not.

[Katman]

I would've thought that upon finding your family dead...then fighting your father off and having to shoot him, that it'd be pretty easy to think in your obvious state of panic that you may well think you'd get blamed for them all and not want to tell the truth.

Makes sense to me.

And as you've said, once the lie's been voiced there would be no going back - you'd only look more guilty of the bigger crime.

[Katman]

That would make David the one who turned the computer on....

Why is that?

Robin could have turned it on.

Simply typing a message on a computer doesn't prove that you were the person who turned it on.

Are you sure you're MENSA material?