David Bain vs The Crown - game over

[MisterD]

Stop clutching at straws ... it's not that hard to demonstrate ... I did it last night with a mag from my own .22 rigfle ..

I'm sorry, but marks that might have been caused by Robin loading a magazine at some point still don't overcome the weight of evidence that tells me that David fought and killed his brother than then washed his blood-soaked clothes.

If those marks are from the magazine, I'm going with it being part of David's scene-staging along with putting the magazine on edge next to his father's hand.

[Swoop]

... they looked like physical scratches rather than dirty marks from touching the mag lips.

Scratches would still be there when the coroner examined the body. They were gone by the time the body was examined. The inability to preserve evidence was a serious lapse in the investigation.

To believe David Bain is innocent, you have to believe that Robin shot himself, which to my knowledge thus far, he did not.

It has been proven in court that he could have fired the shot that killed him. It is physically possible.

Also, having cleaned the blood off of a rifle used in a suicide (headshot) of that same type of gun, it is 100% positive that it can be done.

[Road kill]

I handle this crappy .22 that jams all the time so I'm handling the mag and getting dirty hands.

I want to frame you for shooting a bunch of people before killing yourself.

So knowing this rifle like I do I wipe the dirty mag on your hands so you have GSR ect that is consistant with handling the gun.

The guy is a cunning murdering fuck,,,bring back hanging then we could have these conversation from a different perspective.

[oneofsix]

I handle this crappy .22 that jams all the time so I'm handling the mag and getting dirty hands.

I want to frame you for shooting a bunch of people before killing yourself.

So knowing this rifle like I do I wipe the dirty mag on your hands so you have GSR ect that is consistant with handling the gun.

The guy is a cunning murdering fuck,,,bring back hanging then we could have these conversation from a different perspective.

giving the level of forensic handling the showed you might succeed too but somehow I suspect that even our know the difference between wiped on GSR and and GSR deposits.

Another one that obviously didn't watch the programme

[onearmedbandit]

We humans are an interesting bunch right. We're all presented with the same evidence yet depending on our perspectives etc we interpret it in different ways. Then based solely on what we've been told, and our own understanding of it we fight and argue about it as though we know the truth and anyone else is fucking dead wrong.

My point is; none of us were there, none of us have all the evidence in front of us, and none of us are looking at this from an unbiased point of view. Do I think he's innocent or guilty? Fucked if I know.

[Banditbandit]

I handle this crappy .22 that jams all the time so I'm handling the mag and getting dirty hands.

I want to frame you for shooting a bunch of people before killing yourself.

So knowing this rifle like I do I wipe the dirty mag on your hands so you have GSR ect that is consistant with handling the gun.

It is not all over his hands - it is in two specific small marks ... to me that's a very detailed and subtle approach to placing false evidence ... unlikely to be known by, or used by, yer average paper boy ...

The guy is a cunning murdering fuck,,,bring back hanging then we could have these conversation from a different perspective.

We dropped hanging because it was proven that innocent people were hung ... do you seriously want to go down that same path ???

WMy point is; none of us were there, none of us have all the evidence in front of us, and none of us are looking at this from an unbiased point of view. Do I think he's innocent or guilty? Fucked if I know.

Yeah .. maybe .. after watching the programme and producing the same marks on my own hands when I loaded a .22 mag I'm convinced of David's innocence .. I wasn't before last night .. then I was like you - fuck knows ...

But even a scientific expert the police use was convinced too.

[MSTRS:Me]

A crime scene that is torched with the co-operation of the authorities with indecent haste = something to hide on the part of said authorities. Like they were going ensure they couldn't be accused of magically finding the 'smoking gun' all over again.

[onearmedbandit]

Yeah .. maybe .. after watching the programme and producing the same marks on my own hands when I loaded a .22 mag I'm convinced of David's innocence .. I wasn't before last night .. then I was like you - fuck knows ...

But even a scientific expert the police use was convinced too.

I didn't see the program last evening so can't comment on it's findings personally, although I understand the argument put across.

[Madness]

I bumped into Duncan Garner in the servo this morning and was surprised to hear that in spite of fronting last nights show, he's not convinced as to David's innocence. I didn't want to start a debate with him as the one going on at home is providing quite enough entertainment already.

[Madness]

I handle this crappy .22 that jams all the time so I'm handling the mag and getting dirty hands.

I want to frame you for shooting a bunch of people before killing yourself.

So knowing this rifle like I do I wipe the dirty mag on your hands so you have GSR ect that is consistant with handling the gun.

The guy is a cunning murdering fuck,,,bring back hanging then we could have these conversation from a different perspective.

And to ensure you don't get found out for placing this evidence on the body of your dead father you wait for 19 years before some train-spotter raises the flag for you to the media in an attempt to sway the public opinion at a time when such opinion is cemented in so many New Zealanders. This whole time you sit on the knowledge that these marks are apparent in the police photographs when zooming or enlarging but you say nothing, nada, zilch. If Robin Bain could come back from the grave to fully confess half of this country would still believe David did it.

Have you been drug tested lately?

[MisterD]

to me that's a very detailed and subtle approach to placing false evidence ... unlikely to be known by, or used by, yer average paper boy ...

An "average" paperboy that spent several years planning how his paper round could be used as an alibi for a crime.

Sorry, that evidence was suppressed.

[Banditbandit]

An "average" paperboy that spent several years planning how his paper round could be used as an alibi for a crime.

Sorry, that evidence was suppressed.

I'm sorry - I wasn't being serious when I labelled David Bain an "average paper boy" ...

But for someone who spent several years planning a murder ... if he did that .. he certainly fucked up because he spent 13 years in jail .. and he never once mentioned this evidence he planted??

Get real ...

[MisterD]

and he never once mentioned this evidence he planted??

Well he had a lot on his mind at the time, he probably forgot. He's told so many lies over the years that he's probably lost the real truth from his own mind, there's a good reason Joe Karam does the interviews.

[oneofsix]

Well he had a lot on his mind at the time, he probably forgot. He's told so many lies over the years that he's probably lost the real truth from his own mind, there's a good reason Joe Karam does the interviews.

"at the time" = 13 years of trying to prove his innocence. indeed, entrenched views.

[scumdog]

The mags for the gun hold 10 shots and 5 shots ... possible to fire fifteen shots all up without reloading one mag ...

There were 19 shells found in the house - some fired some not fired .. the gun jams easily (shown last night) and unfired bullets would be ejected ... as they were in the programme

To leave 19 shells at the scene required one mag to be reloaded ... so the shooter had to reload .. the marks indicate that Robin reloaded .. the marks on the hand left by reloading are pretty ephemeral - and unlikely to last more than an hour ... so Robin was the shooter ..

19 'shells'.
How many were fired?

How many times did he have to shoot each person?

Even with jams the one 10-shot mag have done the trick.