David Bain vs The Crown - game over

[Banditbandit]

Obviously haven't followed the case too closely either to have an opinion like that... Or would you care to try and make the case against him?
Joe Karam reckons there is more evidence against Robin than David - clearly if the generally accepted opinion that one of them is responsible you must hold this opinion as well.
Would you care to put up your 'evidence' and let it be critiqued by the masses?
Please don't start with the latest red herring - gun powder residue marks.
I can put that one to rest by pointing out the photograph showed red in the bottom of the groove - obviously from a scrape/injury. This explains the white blurry bits on the last fingerprints. Why it wasn't on the earlier ones was the reason the fingerprint experts deemed them unsatisfactory and thus new prints were taken.

Naa .. see the evidence is already there and already being discussed .. I do not have to justify my position to you .. clearly the evidence convinces me that Robin is guilty - the fact that it does not convince you has no bearing on that. If I was on a jury I would find Robin guilty - if you were on the jury clearly you would not find him guilty ..

Does that mean Robin is guilty or innocent ??? It means no9thign more than we disagree about the validity of the evidence presented.

(And no, I am not convinced that the marks on his thumb are cuts - there are NO, I repeat NO breaks in the loops and whorls on the earlier fingerprints - if there were any cuts they would show up as breaks in those lops and whorls. The fact that a later fingerprint taken does show breaks means bugger all. I would expect an unsatisfactory fingerprint to not show complete loops and whorls (much like the later one) - to me a satisfactorty fingerprint shows ALL the looops and whorls intact ... which means we disagree over which is the satisfactory print as well)

[Banditbandit]

I don't see any red marks that might be blood in the lines on Robin's hand - and I reproduced identical marks using the magazine from one of my own .22 rifles ...





Aas far as the marks being cuts ... Go here ...

http://www.theforensicgroup.co.nz/fo...-finger-marks/

[Hinny]

I don't see any red marks that might be blood in the lines on Robin's hand - and I reproduced identical marks using the magazine from one of my own .22 rifles ...





Aas far as the marks being cuts ... Go here ...

http://www.theforensicgroup.co.nz/fo...-finger-marks/

Well I did look at the link.
Does it escape you that none of the reproduced marks are similar to the marks in the photograph of Robin's hands?
The images shown on television were much clearer than the image you have posted.
Clearly sharp edged and with blood in the bottom of the groove.
This story has as much validity as Joe Karam's 3 to 4 litre bladder capacity.
The Herald article states the lines match perfectly with a .22 magazine. In fact they don't.
This could be an example of the dangers of believing anything you read in the Herald.

[korimako1]

Well I did look at the link.
Does it escape you that none of the reproduced marks are similar to the marks in the photograph of Robin's hands?
The images shown on television were much clearer than the image you have posted.
Clearly sharp edged and with blood in the bottom of the groove.
This story has as much validity as Joe Karam's 3 to 4 litre bladder capacity.
The Herald article states the lines match perfectly with a .22 magazine. In fact they don't.
This could be an example of the dangers of believing anything you read in the Herald.

I dont have an opinion either way, but reproductions of pics can be dubious with photoshop and all the others that can manipulate photos one way or the other. inserting or removing things/colours.
this case has been a shambles from day one like many others. the police should throw away their
"how to investigate a murder for dummies" manuals they are useless.

[scumdog]

I dont have an opinion either way, but reproductions of pics can be dubious with photoshop and all the others that can manipulate photos one way or the other. inserting or removing things/colours.
this case has been a shambles from day one like many others. the police should throw away their
"how to investigate a murder for dummies" manuals they are useless.

Join up, show 'em how!

Better work stories then huh...

[Hinny]

I don't see any red marks that might be blood in the lines on Robin's hand - and I reproduced identical marks using the magazine from one of my own .22 rifles ...





Aas far as the marks being cuts ... Go here ...

http://www.theforensicgroup.co.nz/fo...-finger-marks/

Is the other red mark on Robins thumb the 'injury' that Karam reckoned Robin had.
From all accounts the 'injury' was about the size of a mark from a ballpoint pen.
He raised the 'injury' that Robin had in defense to the point that was made that David was the one who looked like he had been in a fight.
"Robin had injuries too..." he said.
He's a joke.

Interesting that the David supporters want to rely on the earlier fingerprints.
The ones that were determined by a 'fingerprint expert' to be unsatisfactory and hence the taking of new prints.
These later fingerprints show the marks.

[Laava]

This whole thread smacks of wrong. David Bain vs the Crown- Game over?
nah, not even close. Nothing has been proved at all or can possibly be proved. Let it go DB supporters, Joe Karam has got it all under control.

[korimako1]

So police are going to retest Robin Bains fingerprints and test fire the weapon to see if it leaves residue, Any guesses what Judith Collins will have to say about that?

[scumdog]

So police are going to retest Robin Bains fingerprints and test fire the weapon to see if it leaves residue, Any guesses what Judith Collins will have to say about that?

Goodness me?
Whatevva?
Tell him he's dreamin'?

[leathel]

I don't see any red marks that might be blood in the lines on Robin's hand - and I reproduced identical marks using the magazine from one of my own .22 rifles ...





Aas far as the marks being cuts ... Go here ...

http://www.theforensicgroup.co.nz/fo...-finger-marks/

Just wondering how the mark on the end of the finger got there? If using the thumb to load the mag the finger should be around the back of the mag..... and if it did get marked it should not near line up with the thumb marks with the hand in that position ??

[Banditbandit]

Just wondering how the mark on the end of the finger got there? If using the thumb to load the mag the finger should be around the back of the mag..... and if it did get marked it should not near line up with the thumb marks with the hand in that position ??

There are several different ways to use your fingers adn thumb to load a magazine (I don't habitually use any method that leaves marks like this)

If you hold the mag in one hand facing away from you and push the round in with your thumb, you are right, the lines would be on the thumb, running from top to bottom, and if you hold he magazine sideas adn push it across with your thumb the lines will be running accross the thumb, not up and down. (This method is easiest to do with one hand) THis is the way the marks on Robin's thumb may well have been produced when he loaded the magazine.

But if you hold the magazine sideways in one hand and push the round in with your finger you are likely to get the marks running across a finger.

The mark on Robin's finger could be because he loaded the mag using both grips at differnet times (yes, if he commonly used the gun he would only use one method - it wasn't his gun and he may not be used to it and he may have used different methods - yes, a lot of "may" )or it could be because he brushed his fingers across a different part of the gun or mag ...

[Banditbandit]

Well I did look at the link.
Does it escape you that none of the reproduced marks are similar to the marks in the photograph of Robin's hands?

The marks wil be different depending on how hard each person pushed down on the mag to get the roudn in - the flexible strength of their skin and how much it was pushed down .. the number of rounds that left resuidue on the mag ... etc etc. I would not expect identical marks on every person ... but they were similar enough to convince me ..

The images shown on television were much clearer than the image you have posted.
Clearly sharp edged and with blood in the bottom of the groove.

Oh. I thought this picture was clearer than the one on TV ... You can see the fingerprint grooves in this picture - but not in the TV ones ... just goes to show aye? Don't rely on photos - I have seen the same marks on my own thmb from loading a mag that way - and it hadn't been fired recently ... just pulled it out of the cupboard and loaded a shell - bingo there were the marks.

This story has as much validity as Joe Karam's 3 to 4 litre bladder capacity.

What are you going to say if the police run their tests and then agree that the marks are from Robin loading the mag? A closed mind is never good for the owner ...

The Herald article states the lines match perfectly with a .22 magazine. In fact they don't.
This could be an example of the dangers of believing anything you read in the Herald.

Only fools act on what they read in newspapers.

[MisterD]

What are you going to say if the police run their tests and then agree that the marks are from Robin loading the mag? A closed mind is never good for the owner ...

What would you say if the police run their tests and say the gun only has David's prints on it, and they're in human blood?

[Katman]

What would you say if the police run their tests and say the gun only has David's prints on it, and they're in human blood?

That has already been ruled out.

There were other prints on the rifle but they were deemed to be unidentifable and the blood in which David's print were found was shown to have no human DNA.

[MisterD]

That has already been ruled out.

There were other prints on the rifle but they were deemed to be unidentifable and the blood in which David's print were found was shown to have no human DNA.

It was a rhetorical question. However "Found to have no human DNA" and "not able to extract sufficient DNA to test whether human or not" are not the same thing. Technology has moved on since then.

Question: Was it to explain the lack of Robin's prints that Joe spent so many years telling us that Robin must have worn gloves?