Misrepresentation

[Robert Taylor]

Food for thought. Not that I'm looking to move my bike along any time soon, but if I left the front as is (sprung for my weight) and with emulators in, but replaced the ohlins with the original shock and spring would I be selling a suspension deathtrap ?


Also, if I lost 12% bodyweight since I had the suspension done, at what point should I be looking to change spring rates? Would it be cheaper to eat chocolate, cake and drink malt whiskey to recover my weight than "tune" my suspension?

Absolutely not. If say we take the opposite extreme ( a very light and short rider ) you dont ''spring down'' the front end as much as you would think. There still regardless has to be a minimum ''threshold'' of front fork spring rate to support the weight of the bike itself and the weight that pitches forward under braking. That is one of the laughable anomolies with online spring rate calculators, they dont always allow for that and other real world factors.

A spring rate change you may be verging on, but frankly chocolate and malt whiskey sounds great!

[Robert Taylor]

Hi Robert, have you had any experience (comments) of the Showa suspension on the 2012 CBR1000RR units yet, the big piston fronts and balance free rears.

BPF forks yes aka "bad performing forks''. Harsh on bumps. A classis case of finding a design that is appreciably cheaper to make and then getting the marketing guys to say wonderful things.
Rear end no but Im keen to have a look at one and dyno it. Aka ''Showlins''. Much like what K-Tech have done its a blatant rip off with a couple of different interpretations.

[Robert Taylor]

Hi Robert, have you had any experience (comments) of the Showa suspension on the 2012 CBR1000RR units yet, the big piston fronts and balance free rears.

I should post a photo of the dozens of BPF assemblies we have removed, sitting in boxes...........

Compared to conventional 20mm cartridges they push 10 times more fluid for any given length of shaft displacement, and are trying to flow that through a series of tiny ports that choke off in flow rate over abrupt bumps. The ''cross talking'' that also occurs when you adjust rebound is also sizable. If you slow down the rebound you also get more compression damping, even if you dont want it. This is clearly visible on our suspension dyno.

A lower cost and quite reasonable cure is to fit big port Race Tech pistons, but we do find it neccessary to dyno them to optimise the force curves as the ''self instal'' setting bank reccommendations are appreciably ''off'', especially on rebound. Other than that, complete cartridge replacement at of course a lot more dollars.

[skippa1]

I should post a photo of the dozens of BPF assemblies we have removed, sitting in boxes...........

Compared to conventional 20mm cartridges they push 10 times more fluid for any given length of shaft displacement, and are trying to flow that through a series of tiny ports that choke off in flow rate over abrupt bumps. The ''cross talking'' that also occurs when you adjust rebound is also sizable. If you slow down the rebound you also get more compression damping, even if you dont want it. This is clearly visible on our suspension dyno.

A lower cost and quite reasonable cure is to fit big port Race Tech pistons, but we do find it neccessary to dyno them to optimise the force curves as the ''self instal'' setting bank reccommendations are appreciably ''off'', especially on rebound. Other than that, complete cartridge replacement at of course a lot more dollars.

Ok, I'm in your neighbourhood and I'm wondering about a v rod muscle. I know she's a power cruiser but I am wanting the best performance I can get from the bike. Any recommendations?

[Coldrider]

I should post a photo of the dozens of BPF assemblies we have removed, sitting in boxes...........

Compared to conventional 20mm cartridges they push 10 times more fluid for any given length of shaft displacement, and are trying to flow that through a series of tiny ports that choke off in flow rate over abrupt bumps. The ''cross talking'' that also occurs when you adjust rebound is also sizable. If you slow down the rebound you also get more compression damping, even if you dont want it. This is clearly visible on our suspension dyno.

A lower cost and quite reasonable cure is to fit big port Race Tech pistons, but we do find it neccessary to dyno them to optimise the force curves as the ''self instal'' setting bank reccommendations are appreciably ''off'', especially on rebound. Other than that, complete cartridge replacement at of course a lot more dollars.

That's interesting, even though i find it a million times better than I had from my previous bike, I find the standard setup better with 19Kg of load (while touring), than with just me. I am 95kg myself, and i find that situation odd.
I have not adjusted the suspension at all as I am aware the BPF forks need adjusting back to front as in rebound before compression (unless i am misinformed).

[Jantar]

..... The stock shock is pretty basic and lacks size and oil capacity, so deleting the first part of a typical statement you cannot turn it into strawberry jam. Bear in mind that Ohlins now have a ''streetline'' range of highly affordable shocks for such bikes.

Many thanks for that Robert. I will be making an appointment to see you on my next North Island trip later this year.

[Drew]

I have not adjusted the suspension at all as I am aware the BPF forks need adjusting back to front as in rebound before compression (unless i am misinformed).

Hmmm, that is interesting.

I piss around with several racers bikes at the track, and I always set rebound first. Is this not correct Robert? Dunno why I do it that way, and I'm only adjusting clickers so it might not make as big a difference.

[Robert Taylor]

That's interesting, even though i find it a million times better than I had from my previous bike, I find the standard setup better with 19Kg of load (while touring), than with just me. I am 95kg myself, and i find that situation odd.
I have not adjusted the suspension at all as I am aware the BPF forks need adjusting back to front as in rebound before compression (unless i am misinformed).

( Brutally or even a tad sarcastically ) its one of those situations where a lot of people will be happy ( or think they are happy) with what they have got. Hey thats okay, everyone makes their own choices and have their own levels of acceptance. But if you ride with a set of forks that do a really stellar job of absorbing abrupt bumps but with also providing excellent chassis pitch control then you realise what is possible.
Frankly there are a lot of bikes on the market ( and its getting worse with the Chinese made stuff ) where the suspension is frankly quite shocking. That manufacturers are finding cheaper and cheaper ways to make suspension is brutally obvious to those who have their eyes wide open and pay no credence to the marketing spin that is preached. But gullibility is also very rife.

Its always a good etiquette with any construction of forks to ALWAYS adjust rebound first. Not all forks have damping circuits that are either checkvalved to preclude cross talking or are totally seperate system ( compression totally in one leg and rebound totally in the other ) In a conventional set of cartridges that share both rebound and compression duties the rebound bypass flow path is a needle into an orifice. It flows both ways and will therefore also affect compression damping. On the other hand the compression damping adjuster is only reactive to shaft displacement and its adjustment has no discernible affect on rebound damping .

So with BPF type forks because they push so much fluid the effect of rebound adjustment cross talking has a really noticable affect on compression damping. Although we havent spent a lot of time on our ( frankly ) wonderful suspension dyno with this we have sort of approximated how you compensate. If for example you go inwards on rebound by half a turn ( i.e slow it down ) you may have to come outwards on compression by between one quarter to half a turn to bring back the compression force curve to about where it was before you made the rebound adjustment. This effect wont hold true for the amount of compensatory adjustment through the full range of the rebound needle because a straight mono tapered needle is not linear in response from one extremity of the range to the other.

Hope this helps!

[Robert Taylor]

Ok, I'm in your neighbourhood and I'm wondering about a v rod muscle. I know she's a power cruiser but I am wanting the best performance I can get from the bike. Any recommendations?

We have done a lot of work with V-Rods and their variations. On the Muscle model the front forks have a cartridge in one leg only. If you refer to my immediate previous post I ( scathingly ) mentioned that manufacturers are finding cheaper ways of making suspension. This is but one way, halve the cartridges and one fork just becomes a slave fork. The control in that stock cartridge is not so good. We have in stock upgrade piston kits for these and have fitted a few with excellent results.

Rear end, we have built more than a few Ohlins shocks for this model starting with a lower cost version but also excellent in performance i.e ride height control and compliance. Certainly way way better than the budget brands being peddled on the market, which actually are pretty similiar in price anyway. We also have accumulated a pile of parts to build a set of demo shocks for one of these in a slightly higher spec and these are going to be otherwise set aside for dealer tryouts. But you are welcome to try this set with no obligation to buy.

Call in and see us at some stage and we will show you what is possible

[Robert Taylor]

Hmmm, that is interesting.

I piss around with several racers bikes at the track, and I always set rebound first. Is this not correct Robert? Dunno why I do it that way, and I'm only adjusting clickers so it might not make as big a difference.

Drew youve correctly figured it but you're still a deviant

[Drew]

You're still a deviant

No one disputes it mate.