Who bought the Sarin gas into Syria?

[flyingcrocodile46]

No secret there, it's more rigid and more dense than lead, which makes it ideal against armour.

Any secondary nefarious intent outside of that original design is almost certainly considered as undesirable by the US army as anyone else, rather than any intended bonus kill points.

Again, I'm not condoning it's use, I'm simply commenting on the utter impossibility of obtaining accurate, unspun information on it's effects, then or now. Like a lot of other hugely politicised topics this century it's all but impossible to get at the truth.

Get at, or... find a level of evidence proportional to that of the discomfort of the possible or even probable truth in the face of so much comforting smoke and official denials? It all depends on how you want to look at it I guess. We all have to find the level that we believe is right for us as individuals.

The important thing is that we don't shut ourselves off from evidence of uncomfortable possibilities of truth. Especially given overwhelming evidence of the one ever dependable constant... 'consistent deception of the public during and preceding wars by way of false flag attacks and outright lies in the form of alleged threats to security posed by the intended victim'.

Not to forget the well documented evidence of CIA training and ownership of rebel forces such as El Qaeda (a driving force in the Syrian and Libyan rebellions). It all must be weighed to properly assess what the probabilities are. One thing you can be sure of... what you see in the mainstream media and more particularly what the American and British leaders are saying, will be very very misleading.

[Ocean1]

Get at, or... find a level of evidence proportional to that of the discomfort of the truth in the face of so much comforting smoke and official denials? It all depends on how you want to look at it I guess. We all have to find the level that we believe is right for us as individuals.

The variable I check in lieu of obvious truth isn't comfort, it's the level of confidence that can be assigned to the source. Generally any document/webpage/book displaying a collection of statements aligned too closely with any identifiable political entity gets ignored. Might be 100% correct, but my experience prejudices my acceptance of any document that looks too much like it holds a political stance.

If that means I miss the final enlightenment then fine, I'll be late to Valhalla. You can have my boar and mead, I simply don't have enough minutes in my life to believe everyone else's beliefs.

[Voltaire]

It can take a single election to get rid of the white mutha fuckers here

Elections? that's where the pubic get tired of whoever and vote in the other guys who looked good on the tele.

Why do we need local MP's.....with the technology at hand we could just have referendums on everything at 99 cents a time....EG, second Harbour Crossing, North Shore rate payers to pay....or waste of time Auckland underground that goes nowhere business round table to pay and so forth.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Elections? that's where the pubic get tired of whoever and vote in the other guys who looked good on the tele.

Why do we need local MP's.....with the technology at hand we could just have referendums on everything at 99 cents a time....EG, second Harbour Crossing, North Shore rate payers to pay....or waste of time Auckland underground that goes nowhere business round table to pay and so forth.

What a cunning plan

[mashman]

Elections? that's where the pubic get tired of whoever and vote in the other guys who looked good on the tele.

Why do we need local MP's.....with the technology at hand we could just have referendums on everything at 99 cents a time....EG, second Harbour Crossing, North Shore rate payers to pay....or waste of time Auckland underground that goes nowhere business round table to pay and so forth.

heh heh heh... yup, that's them. A useful system should you have anything different to offer.

Because currently we crave accountability. Someone to blame should things go tits up... shit you don't want to be blaming yerself now do ya. Although should you have anything different to offer, such as say, phasing out the MP system and implementing online referenda to "govern" departments of work, perhaps it would be met favourably... however you'll need to hold office first.

A wee note on my concerns in regards to online voting... nope, not the conspiracy of it being rigged, but the fact that those who are uninterested or do not have a stake in any development will quite possibly be outnumbered by those who do and the vote may not go as you expect... especially when you factor in the number of projects on the go at any given time. You will choose the ones you are interested in, the ones that benefit your area and potentially vote to sabotage projects in other areas. There is also the consideration of budget, where at some point you will end up with a project that is sold as doing good for the majority, but at the expense of many projects that will help those less fortunate that may well be sold as helping bludgers. Whilst the mechanism will change, the warfare for project votes will pretty much remain the same. Whilst a great idea, there are potential downsides and there's 2 biggies imho. We're always going to need the decision makers, not necessarily MP's I grant you, but at some point decisions will need to be made and for better or for worse we currently expect heads to roll should things go tits.

[Laava]

How come Katman isn't in here yet?

[Voltaire]

heh heh heh... yup, that's them. A useful system should you have anything different to offer.

Because currently we crave accountability. Someone to blame should things go tits up... shit you don't want to be blaming yerself now do ya. Although should you have anything different to offer, such as say, phasing out the MP system and implementing online referenda to "govern" departments of work, perhaps it would be met favourably... however you'll need to hold office first.

A wee note on my concerns in regards to online voting... nope, not the conspiracy of it being rigged, but the fact that those who are uninterested or do not have a stake in any development will quite possibly be outnumbered by those who do and the vote may not go as you expect... especially when you factor in the number of projects on the go at any given time. You will choose the ones you are interested in, the ones that benefit your area and potentially vote to sabotage projects in other areas. There is also the consideration of budget, where at some point you will end up with a project that is sold as doing good for the majority, but at the expense of many projects that will help those less fortunate that may well be sold as helping bludgers. Whilst the mechanism will change, the warfare for project votes will pretty much remain the same. Whilst a great idea, there are potential downsides and there's 2 biggies imho. We're always going to need the decision makers, not necessarily MP's I grant you, but at some point decisions will need to be made and for better or for worse we currently expect heads to roll should things go tits.

I was only joking with the text in idea.... I have no idea how politics works but after watching it from the sidelines in 4 different countries over the last 30 years I've come to the conclusion that elections are just changing the idiots around.
No way would they give their precious power away to the voters who they probably view as morons.
Why is it that we expect them to resign when they stuff up....they should be made to be ashamed and go back in and sort it out...not go to the back of the class or start a new mini club with our money.
Still, I can't really complain as I'm lucky enough to live here and not Syria. ( sorry croc for thread deviation)

[mashman]

I was only joking with the text in idea.... I have no idea how politics works but after watching it from the sidelines in 4 different countries over the last 30 years I've come to the conclusion that elections are just changing the idiots around.
No way would they give their precious power away to the voters who they probably view as morons.
Why is it that we expect them to resign when they stuff up....they should be made to be ashamed and go back in and sort it out...not go to the back of the class or start a new mini club with our money.
Still, I can't really complain as I'm lucky enough to live here and not Syria. ( sorry croc for thread deviation)

heh... I've heard it touted as a solution to get more people involved in choosing local and national projects. Not by any media, but certainly by folk I spoken to and on other forums. In ways I'm surprised we don't have it yet.
Agreed on the evolution of politicians being somewhat stunted... although I think they should have all assets stripped from them and thrown on the dole for a year before being allowed to make a return... t'would make for some excellent reality TV .
Can't complain because you have it better than people in a war torn country? Tis probably the best reason to complain.