Brick walls, apexing, lane position, gear selection etc

[bluninja]

altered to clarify

Yup break before entering corner ( that's before you get there). I use engine brake as it works best with my bike ( British twin and don't get chain lash on a straight line, nor on my shaft drive XJ either ) Agree use throttle- brakes-gears to reduce otherwise. Do not brake in corner with engine or otherwise, did mention that.

Ah you have a british twin...that's why you break before a corner ...most reliable bikes brake before a corner

As for the transmission lash you get it on every bike whether chain or shaft, upright or bent over. It's just that breaking traction when upright and straight is not normally going to see you kissing tarmac. If you are happy with engine braking then good for you. I just think brake pads are cheaper than engines.

But thanks for the clarification, would you mind clearing this query up?

You say for lefties you go to the right of the centre line...apart from if you are already "offsiding" and arrive in that position why would you compromise your grip going into the corner for the extra visibility? From the right of the centre you will be leaning and turning against the camber, on the wrong side of the road and having to cross a white line, possibly with cats eyes to bump you on the way in.

[Drew]

Oh it can happen I almost had to indicate going around a 25km corner some years ago...didn't see the marker, Fuck! there it was, hard on the brakes, front wheel just over the white line but got around..

A brick wall moment.

Heading south, coming onto the desert road by chance?

Only time I ever scraped the fairing and pegs on my K2 thou was that fuckin 25k right hander. Dunno what the hell I was thinking, but went whoring around the left hander with the 25k corner sign, (I was fuckin flying by my standards). Fist full of front brake, back down as many gears as I could, and no choice but to let the brake go and chuck it in on faith.

[Drew]

Why not?

If you're cornering with the appropriate degree of safety margin, there's no reason why you can't brake in a corner.

Also, from a racer point of view, braking while turning is paramount to going fast. The braking force just has to be eased off to allow for the bike being leaned over.

[ducatilover]

This should be an excellent thread full of useful information

[Gremlin]

If you're cornering with the appropriate degree of safety margin, there's no reason why you can't brake in a corner.

If you set up for the corner correctly, then you shouldn't be braking mid corner.

I'll take a leaf out of the IAM book, for cornering.
I = Information
P = Position
S = Speed
G = Gear
A = Acceleration

Information is throughout all the steps, as you are constantly receiving it, evaluating it and using it. The other steps all follow each other. From information, you decide your position on the road. The gives you a suitable speed for the conditions, and subsequently, the correct gear to choose. Once the vanishing point increases you can apply acceleration out of the corner.

Once you get all that down pat, you can expect smoothness and flow to come from it

[Maha]

Heading south, coming onto the desert road by chance?

Only time I ever scraped the fairing and pegs on my K2 thou was that fuckin 25k right hander. Dunno what the hell I was thinking, but went whoring around the left hander with the 25k corner sign, (I was fuckin flying by my standards). Fist full of front brake, back down as many gears as I could, and no choice but to let the brake go and chuck it in on faith.

Between Waihi and Whangamata I think Drew, I was 2-up on the Triumph Sprint at the time.

[Laava]

altered to clarify

Yup break before entering corner ( that's before you get there). I use engine brake as it works best with my bike ( British twin and don't get chain lash on a straight line, nor on my shaft drive XJ either ) Agree use throttle- brakes-gears to reduce otherwise. Do not brake in corner with engine or otherwise, did mention that.

So by the same token you will have to wait until the corner is finished before accelerating?
Doing all your braking before a corner is a beginners guide to, AFAIK.

[granstar]

Re braking...As Gremlin said.

set up for the corner correctly, then you shouldn't be braking mid corner....... decide your position on the road. The gives you a suitable speed for the conditions, and subsequently, the correct gear to choose. Once the vanishing point increases you can apply acceleration out of the corner..... expect smoothness and flow to come from it

Bluninja maybe I didn't say that well, you don't obviously extremely cross the line, position bike to the right.

Watched that "twist wrist II" youtube, explains it all a lot better.

when confronted with a real journey one must brake really hard

Reference of two riders in a well controlled braking judged stopping distance situation to avoid rear ending two real journey buses on Milford Road that panic braked head on at a narrow bridge, yes, near crapped ourselves.

[Katman]

If you set up for the corner correctly, then you shouldn't be braking mid corner.

So if you're going around a blind corner and an obstacle/hazard appears in your sight, you're just going to plow into it, are you?

Good luck with that.

[Banditbandit]

Steer in a corner?

Position to right of centre line for lefts leaning bike

What ?? - Hang about ... that puts you on the WRONG side of the centreline ..

I find not thinking about all this shit makes it much much easier to ride. Too much going on at any one time on a bike, for my feeble mind to keep up with.

Yeah .. me too .. I do tend to focus on the throttle as the smaller Bandit balances nicely in the corners on the throttle - and steers really well that way too ..

Why not?

If you're cornering with the appropriate degree of safety margin, there's no reason why you can't brake in a corner.

That depends on the bike .. many I have ridden stand up straight as soon as you touch the brake ... others corner quite well with gentle pressure or just tapping the front brake ..

So if you're going around a blind corner and an obstacle/hazard appears in your sight, you're just going to plow into it, are you?

Good luck with that.

Hit the brakes hard and stand the bike up then ...

[Katman]

That depends on the bike .. many I have ridden stand up straight as soon as you touch the brake ... others corner quite well with gentle pressure or just tapping the front brake ..



Hit the brakes hard and stand the bike up then ...

Yes, there is a tendency for a bike to want to stand up straight under braking but it will only do so if you let it.

[unstuck]

This should be an excellent thread full of useful information

Should be.

[Grubber]

This should be an excellent thread full of useful information

Starting out just swimmingly so far it seems. Tui!

[Grubber]

Your entry position to the corner sets everything else in place. Placing yourself on the best grippy bit of road and then adjusting your speed to match your forward visibility through the bend.

The old adage "slow in, fast out" always seems to work for me. On roads your positioning, speed setting and gear selection should all be complete before you enter the corner. All that leaves then is to turn into the corner and roll the throttle on. Reduce the number of things to think about and you have more brain power to deal with anything that happens as you go round the bend.

On a right hander I stay as far as I can to the left for better visibility and so that it's impossible on normal roads for my head to cross the centre line. As I pass the apex and the line straightens I exit upright about 1m inside the centre line. On Left handers I am at the centre line for visibility knowing that I will lean into my own side of the road.

This should work fine, cause you appear to have some idea!

Engine brake in, open throttle out?

So you have the bike wheel driving the engine causing the rear wheel to extend out, lowering ground clearance and increasing the wheelbase?

Then you open the throttle so you get transmission lash on the chain which may cause the back wheel to break traction on roads with poor grip?

If you brake with the brakes before the corner, match gears to your speed before you enter and then use the throttle on the way in you end up with better stability, traction, ground clearance and less load on the front tyre.

This.......well i would perhaps refer to previous quote!
You always accelerate out of corner to create grip! Just sayin!

[Mom]

Forget the emergency cow in middle of road sceario, what about trailing the rear brake through a corner?

I tried that on some tighter turns on Saturday, bike was steady and solid as a rock. No standing up either...