Brick walls, apexing, lane position, gear selection etc

[ducatilover]

Forget the emergency cow in middle of road sceario, what about trailing the rear brake through a corner?

I tried that on some tighter turns on Saturday, bike was steady and solid as a rock. No standing up either...

Trailing the rear tends to settle the bike and should be done in lower speed corners


In response to something mentioned before, rolling on the gas does not make the arse of most bikes drop, it raises and the most stable way to be is on a cracked open throttle in a corner and slowly transferring wieght to the rear.

Braking in corners can be done, but 99% of us will lowside in a panic in a corner like that. Or stand it up and hit a Yak or some shit.


But I dunno, I haven't been for a ride all year I think (not even sure about that one either!)

[Gremlin]

So if you're going around a blind corner and an obstacle/hazard appears in your sight, you're just going to plow into it, are you?

Shouldn't isn't the same as 100%. Mom is asking about general riding not emergency scenarios.

...what about trailing the rear brake through a corner?

I tried that on some tighter turns on Saturday, bike was steady and solid as a rock. No standing up either...

Comfort braking, and a bad habit to get into. Why do you feel the need to brake? Can be a lot of factors, such as thinking you're coming the corner too hot (ie, didn't brake before the corner enough - possibly misread the corner), or you didn't setup for the corner correctly, and so on.

[george formby]

Forget the emergency cow in middle of road sceario, what about trailing the rear brake through a corner?

I tried that on some tighter turns on Saturday, bike was steady and solid as a rock. No standing up either...

I do that a lot now. A consequence of practicing gymkhana techniques. Only on corners I'm not 100% sure of. Throttle open, speed controlled by rear brake, release to accelerate. It also means I can brake with front more confidently leaned over mid corner should I have to. I also use the front brake to initiate my turn in if I'm, er, ahem, being enthusiastic.

I take the line of maximum visibility into a corner, the vanishing point & conditions dictate my speed. I'm quite happy being over the white line into, not through, a left hander but do not make a habit of it. Tends to happen on the same sort of ride when I turn with the front brake.

I also ride some roads with no brakes, just on & off the throttle for the sheer hell of it. I like leaning.

To me it's just as important being disciplined in avoiding bad habits as it is developing good ones hence the brick wall syndrome. Stops me being lazy & getting caught out one day when I'm away with the fairies.

Oh, my bike only needs one gear. It's very thumpy.

[Katman]

Shouldn't isn't the same as 100%. Mom is asking about general riding not emergency scenarios.

You seem to be of the opinion that you shouldn't brake mid-corner.

I'm just saying that your speed should be such that, if you need to brake mid-corner, you can.

[george formby]

You seem to be of the opinion that you shouldn't brake mid-corner.

I'm just saying that your speed should be such that, if you need to brake mid-corner, you can.

Yesum, the geezer who pointed out that you can cross the centre line to increase visibility also battered into me that "You must ALWAYS be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear". He chased criminals for a living.

[bluninja]

This.......well i would perhaps refer to previous quote!
You always accelerate out of corner to create grip! Just sayin!

Hmmm.. so the fact you are constantly changing direction at a speed means you can't help but accelerate through a bend has escaped you. Or that I said I "use the throttle on the way in".

Acccelerating does not create grip......the only times a bike slides is when acceleration forces overcome traction.

Having the throttle open and rolling on causes the back wheel to squat raising ride height and shortening wheelbase and can balance the bike across both front and rear contact patch. I think you need to read th TOTW books and that cheesy video for TOTW2 again.

[sugilite:Me]

Copied a post I made from a thread I started years back found at http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-paid-to-do-it!

As my racing became almost non existent, I'm pleased to report that my road riding km's have gone up. While it has not been a easy transition to the road I've found myself now riding in a fashion I thought I'd share for anyone interested.

It's all about Smooooooth. One of the key factors to this is the brakes, or more lack of. When approaching a corner, aim to arrive at the perfect speed for said corner without using your brakes. Then gently roll on the throttle going into, through and out the corner. (always stay on your side of the centre line)
That alone will bring the following benefits.
1. Will automatically give you a plan B should the unexpected happen....You can use your brakes and have time to change/alter your cornering line. Having a plan C is also a good idea (for instance both braking and altering your cornering line)

2. Gently accelerating in and through the corner takes the weight off the front wheel (read- much safer), settles the bikes suspension and throttle use can be used to change your cornering radius (more on this later)

3. The nature of this riding style dictates you look well ahead. Riders that do not look far ahead find their motorcycling experience to be a scary world where everything happens quickly and somewhat unpredictably.

4. The smoothness brings on the flow, and once the flow is achieved and maintained.

5. Your tyres, brake pads and fuel will all go a lot further saving you $$$$ which you can sink straight back into the bike

6. It's such a relaxing way to ride, you save on physical energy, especially over a long trip. Now understand this is physically easier on your body, but you still cannot afford to phone it in with your thought processes. BE EVER VIGILANT AT ALL TIMES.

7. Believe it or not, getting it right is FUN and rewarding.

Exercises I've used to speed up the learning process:
1. Since the key of the process is arriving at the corner at a perfect speed, I made up a game for myself, consisting of when approaching an object be it a corner, or catching up to traffic in front...what ever..I would roll off the throttle early, if I had to brake when approaching a corner or a line of traffic, I'd "lose points". Now for goodness sake set a large safety margin!!! I'm not suggesting for a moment, that should you need to brake, that you leave it late. You would be a total Dork or Dorkett if you rear ended a car while trying to "win" your game now wouldn't you?

2. In order to reduce velocity, down changing gears is a permitted activity. Though not to the detriment of your clutch!!! An over revving motor does not a smooth rider make! Also, while not necessarily aiding "smooth", one can try sitting upright and sticking elbows in the breeze (you may be suprised how well this can work at reducing speed).

Whats this using the throttle to tighten or widen your corner line?
Hell, I'm glad I asked that question
Simply put, you choose your intended line (or be at least attempting to!) and commit to it, sometimes you realize you need to be on a tighter or wider line than what you are. Using the above style, you are accelerating gently through the entire corner. If you reduce the throttle, your bike will tighten it's line, and if you apply more throttle the bike will widen it's line, all with no bodily input, let the bike do more of the work while also upping the smooooth and fun factor!

Finding a quiet section of road you know well to practise on can be very helpful, especially when trying out this style for the first few times. Up hill is better as it makes things easier, as you naturally decelerate faster for corners.

Anyway, practicing the above quickly allows you to master your approach speeds perfectly and you too can start riding the flow.

[Grubber]

Hmmm.. so the fact you are constantly changing direction at a speed means you can't help but accelerate through a bend has escaped you. Or that I said I "use the throttle on the way in".

Acccelerating does not create grip......the only times a bike slides is when acceleration forces overcome traction.

Having the throttle open and rolling on causes the back wheel to squat raising ride height and shortening wheelbase and can balance the bike across both front and rear contact patch. I think you need to read th TOTW books and that cheesy video for TOTW2 again.

Been there done that along time ago.
Acceleration through and out of the bend forces the back down and widens the tread to gain more grip, in other words it forces it into the ground.
Why are you constantly changing direction for??? How does it mean you cant help but accelerate???
If the back wheel squats, how does this raise your ride height???
Use the throttle on the way in?????
I thought you had read the TOTW????

Love to hear you explain all this.

[bluninja]

Been there done that along time ago.
Acceleration through and out of the bend forces the back down and widens the tread to gain more grip, in other words it forces it into the ground.
Why are you constantly changing direction for??? How does it mean you cant help but accelerate???
If the back wheel squats, how does this raise your ride height???
Use the throttle on the way in?????
I thought you had read the TOTW????

Love to hear you explain all this.

I'm assuming this is a troll cos you can't be that lacking in english skills and basic physics right?

So what forces the back wheel into the ground? Try this link
What is the definaition of acceleration? work it out and you'll answer the question yourself.
You've already stated that "Acceleration through and out of the bend forces the back down" I've made the assumption (silly I know) that you are referring to the back wheel, so seems strange about asking about the back wheel squatting. Refer to the article in the link and you will see that the back wheel (but not the rear of the bike) squats and pushes into the ground. Just stick your front wheel against a solid wall, rev your bike and let the clutch bite. Your back wheel squats, the rear (and your ride height) rises.
Use throttle on the way in? Of course if you aren't rolling on the throttle then you have engine braking into the corner and all that entails.
Yes I've read it, and absorbed the information that I want and can use into a form I understand. I don't feel the need to parrot the book.

[ducatilover]

I thought you had read the TOTW????

You obviously haven't.

[Madness]

Motorcycles. Just ride the cunts.

[BigAl]

I find sticking your left foot out like Valentino helps to settle the bike whilst braking for the corners.

[george formby]

Summat else to think about with corners.. We only really have control of the bike when we are accelerating, whether it be a little or a lot. With a closed throttle or on the brakes we rely on friction & gravity/inertia in one form or another, neither of which we control. The throttle is your friend. Like King Kenny points out in his book, which is the most controllable way to steer? With the front wheel on the brakes or with the rear wheel on the gas?

[Drew]

I find sticking your left foot out like Valentino helps to settle the bike whilst braking for the corners.

Ever tried it?

Summat else to think about with corners.. We only really have control of the bike when we are accelerating, whether it be a little or a lot. With a closed throttle or on the brakes we rely on friction & gravity/inertia in one form or another, neither of which we control. The throttle is your friend. Like King Kenny points out in his book, which is the most controllable way to steer? With the front wheel on the brakes or with the rear wheel on the gas?

Yeah, gravity and friction have fuck all to do with it once the throttle is open.

Can anyone remember the last bike they saw Kenny Roberts on? My mental image shows him on a bike older than I am! Why the fuck would you take that advice, (meant for race tracks I might add), and try to apply it to modern road riding?






Anyone know the saying. "Youth is wasted on the young"?

How about this instead? "Freedom of thought is wasted, on nearly FUCKING EVERYONE"!

[Laava]

Anyone know the saying. "Youth is wasted on the young"?

How about this instead? "Freedom of thought is wasted, on nearly FUCKING EVERYONE"!

How about, "i'm not young. Let's get wasted!"