Thoughts on looking where you want to go

[R-Soul]

I was wondering why looking and target fixation while riding is so important in riding. After all, countersteering is countersteering right? I could be looking up in the air or even backwards, but if I push on one bar, I will go that way....

I have come to the conclusion that one of the most important aspects of "looking where you want to go" is the fact that it puts you on the inside side of the bike.

An important aspect of being on the inside of the bike in a corner is not that your body weight is inside - that actually does not matter too much (I believe its more important to get it low, which you can really only do if it is inside or outside)- but what is more important is that your head is closer to the inside bar so that your body has the REACH to be able to push the handlebars forward enough, and the leverage to be able to have more power in pushing the inside bar forward by bringing your legs into play.

At least on my bike, even with its forward riding position, in a hard turn its quite easy to run out of the reach required to countersteer harder/further (short arms).

Maybe thats why the bikes with the more upright riding positons with closer bars are regarded as being more agile and responsive, and are probably safer in a traffic environment, since you will always have more reach to either side if the bars are closer to you, for a quicker, harder turn.

I am not showing any bias or preference here - my bike is def's not like this.

Any thoughts?

[Maha]

Countersteering happens naturally, there is no conscious thought process involved...it's physics and geometry working in tandem.
It is natural, that when you lean a bike into a left hand corner for instance, physics dictates that you will weight the left bar.

Target fixation on the other hand, has nothing to do with science at all. The direction of the bike is under total control of the rider, where you look, is indeed, where you will go.

[bogan]

I have come to the conclusion that one of the most important aspects of "looking where you want to go" is the fact that it puts you on the inside side of the bike.

Right up there with seeing whats coming right?

Seriously though, it changes the sensation of speed to give you mind more time to process whats coming, help visualise the line you need to take, helps position you body to take that line, and in many people starts involuntary movements to make that happen.

[Ocean1]

An important aspect of being on the inside of the bike in a corner is not that your body weight is inside - that actually does not matter too much (I believe its more important to get it low, which you can really only do if it is inside or outside)- but what is more important is that your head is closer to the inside bar so that your body has the REACH to be able to push the handlebars forward enough, and the leverage to be able to have more power in pushing the inside bar forward by bringing your legs into play.

How much do you reckon you turn the bars to initiate the countersteer required for a typical open road curve?

[Ocean1]

Target fixation on the other, has nothing to do with science at all. The direction of the bike is under total control of the rider, where you look is indeed, where you will go.

I think almost all control inputs either are or become subconcious, and that's why looking where you want to go works whether you want it to or not, it sort of instructs your subconcious to go there irrespective of what your concious mind wants.

[Maha]

I think almost all control inputs either are or become subconcious, and that's why looking where you want to go works whether you want it to or not, it sort of instructs your subconcious to go there irrespective of what your concious mind wants.

Agreed...like I said, not science.

[Asher]

When you look in a direction you do more than move your head, you also move your shoulder, hips and knees in that direction.
It also helps your balance, looking up at the horizon will help keep you rubber-side down.

[R-Soul]

Right up there with seeing whats coming right?

Seriously though, it changes the sensation of speed to give you mind more time to process whats coming, help visualise the line you need to take, helps position you body to take that line, and in many people starts involuntary movements to make that happen.

Yeees... besides the obvious stuff why lookig is important, like not hitting shit, or because you would be blind with your eyes closed....

I am talking in the context of a sudden unexpected thing happening, like a log coming out from under the car in frint of you, or the corner tightening up suddenly. Why is looking up the road into the tightening corner so important? I think its to get your body positioning and reach and leverage right for a harder turn.

[R-Soul]

Target fixation on the other, has nothing to do with science at all. The direction of the bike is under total control of the rider, where you look is indeed, where you will go.

Not necessarily. I have been playing around with that, and I can steer way from where I am looking without too much trouble. I just need to pre-position my body. I probably would not be able to in an emergency though - but that is because by doing the looking thing, it causes me to position my body properly.

[R-Soul]

How much do you reckon you turn the bars to initiate the countersteer required for a typical open road curve?

It snot much, but I believe that its not so much the extent of turn as the high force required to push it, or a combo of both.
Having said that, my bike is a little heavy to turn, and my arms are relatively short...

[R-Soul]

When you look in a direction you do more than move your head, you also move your shoulder, hips and knees in that direction.
It also helps your balance, looking up at the horizon will help keep you rubber-side down.

And by leaning in, it also straightens the link between your oustide foot and your inside hand, making it more rigid, and longer,and allowing more force through your legs.

[p.dath]

I'll put it to you that the human brain does not have enough conscious power to manage all the tasks to control a bike.

As a result, we have to rely on the sub-conscious mind to do a lot of the process. Just think about all the things that have to happen to make a turn. Just consider all the tendons that have to move just to allow you to lean your body. Fine motor control is another example.


So yes, most definitely when you start looking in a direction your sub-conscious mind wants to take you there, weather you conscious mind likes it or not. And your conscious mind has to spend extra effort to prevent it. Personally, I don't want to be spending extra conscious effort to fight my sub-conscious mind. I want my whole brain to be working in unison.

[R-Soul]

Agreed...like I said, not science.

I am not saying that you should not look where yuo want to go - avoiding target fixation is first choice - that much is obvious. I am just questioning the reason behind the reason.

Maybe one day that understanding will allow me to avoid an accident by doing what I need to do even though I am target fixating.

[Maha]

Not necessarily. I have been playing around with that, and I can steer way from where I am looking without too much trouble. I just need to pre-position my body. I probably would not be able to in an emergency though - but that is because by doing the looking thing, it causes me to position my body properly.

Of cause you can..did you miss this bit in my post?
But missing something on the road is NOT taget fixation.
The reason behind the reason? it's a term that decribes why you have hit something (or not missed something if you will) when you had no intention of doing so.

The direction of the bike is under total control of the rider

[Deano]

I'll put it to you that the human brain does not have enough conscious power to manage all the tasks to control a bike.

As a result, we have to rely on the sub-conscious mind to do a lot of the process.

Subconscious is still human brain....don't your comments contradict each other ?

As a racer, I don't believe that I am not in total control of my bike. That would only be negative and could cost me tenths of seconds.

The only target I am fixating on is 1st place.