Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[Katman]

Then why call it God?

I don't.

I only used the word so you'd know what I was talking about.

(And that's why I don't bother to capitalise the word).

[Akzle]

Your problem is in your perception of 'god'.

My perception of 'god' is an all encompassing energy source.

The sort of energy source that makes atoms vibrate.

"source" implies it's seperate and remote from you... and has a destination

[Katman]

"source" implies it's seperate and remote from you... and has a destination

Don't fret - I'm plugged into the source.

[TheDemonLord]

no. the'yre objectively not.

my presupposition of your dragon, as with your presupposition of god, is negative.

BS, and you know it. Either My Dragon exists and so does God, or My Dragon doesn't exist (and neither does god) - because the evidence presented for both the existence of My Dragon and the Existence of God is the same.

jesus, with all of your words in my mouth how can i be expected to say anything else

Or, I'm just pointing out the problem with a perception based worldview - that perceptions can be wrong. That's why Science works and other methods don't, because Science doesn't rely on perceptions (and no weaseling about perceptions of measurements).

one can define god. fairly unequivocably. and one can state, equally unequivocably, that >80% of adults experience or perceive god.

Again, with the Argumentum ad Populum - at one time 100% percent of people perceived the world to be Flat, Is the world Flat? If your answer is no, then it doesn't matter what % you throw at me, it doesn't mean spit.

what evidence... I know god.

you THINK you know God.

your failure to be able to measure or perceive that/it really isn't my problem.

It is when you are saying that your God is real and not just an imaginary friend.

according to whom.

It's one of the characteristics of God

and, what laws are constant

Most are, until you get to a Black hole or down to the Quantum level - but that is where the quest for the Unified Theory comes in.

so too can be induced by yoga, or simply breathing differently, or in the abcense of those specific magnetic fields (or, "any" fields).

Soooo, you can experience God by doing Yoga, and this proves that there is an all powerfull supernatural being that controls everything.

Occam weeps in his Grave.

your argument = hitting you in the head with a bat would cause a headache.
but that does not mean every headache (there's another one for you to explain) was caused by a bat.

No, but it does mean that if we can replicate the experience we can find the cause - and if your God turns out to be nothing more than a unique chemical reaction in the brain, then what?

don't bring religion into it. it's against the rules.

Wah.

All of The Points. You missed.

Quite, but still doesn't excuse you from a very key point that I was making.

no. but it is something he opened my eyes to.
how, if god is not innate, have so many come to know it? if your ideas are right, you being human (i assume), your ideas must be innate, why do most people disagree with you?

the point actually being, that in a world before internets, how did remote cultures with no scientifically known means of communication, come up with pretty much the exact same stories, at the exact same times.[/QUOTE]

It's almost like we evolved from a single species and through the process of Natural selection developed and reinforced certain traits (which were successful in being passed on to the next generation) and then when we migrated out of Africa, we took those common traits with us.

Traits like care for your offspring (which are as close to universal as you can get, even more so than God)

Oh Wait....

[oldrider]

That he's not an actual doctor and his phony degrees aren't worth spit and his entire blog is an attempt at Argument from Authority?

Weird he may well be - the reference material provided is more interesting than his blog - but your mind was probably already made up!

[Akzle]

BS, and you know it. Either My Dragon exists and so does God, or My Dragon doesn't exist (and neither does god) - because the evidence presented for both the existence of My Dragon and the Existence of God is the same.

have you perceived a dragon in your garage?

Or, I'm just pointing out the problem with a perception based worldview - that perceptions can be wrong. That's why Science works and other methods don't, because Science doesn't rely on perceptions (and no weaseling about perceptions of measurements).

except it isn't and you're grasping for hurdles to fall over to reinforce your beliefs.

Again, with the Argumentum ad Populum - at one time 100% percent of people perceived the world to be Flat, Is the world Flat? If your answer is no, then it doesn't matter what % you throw at me, it doesn't mean spit.

i never did.
not that i have any evidence that it isn't. do you?

you THINK you know God.

no, im pretty sure i know what i know. and that infact there's nothing i don't know, as far as im aware.

It is when you are saying that your God is real and not just an imaginary friend.

no. no it really isn't.

It's one of the characteristics of God

according to whom

Most are, until you get to a Black hole or down to the Quantum level - but that is where the quest for the Unified Theory comes in.

so, except for some, all laws are constant. as far as you can perceive. glad we could clear that up, that this is a your-failing-perception issue rather than a fact issue.

Soooo, you can experience God by doing Yoga, and this proves that there is an all powerfull supernatural being that controls everything.

according to whom

No, but it does mean that if we can replicate the experience we can find the cause - and if your God turns out to be nothing more than a unique chemical reaction in the brain, then what?

then i'd roll and smoke it.

Quite, but still doesn't excuse you from a very key point that I was making.

you'll have to be a bit clearer. i must have missed it in the waffle.

It's almost like we evolved from a single species and through the process of Natural selection developed and reinforced certain traits (which were successful in being passed on to the next generation) and then when we migrated out of Africa, we took those common traits with us.

Traits like care for your offspring (which are as close to universal as you can get, even more so than God)

Oh Wait....

yes, wait indeed, because that was irrelevant as fuck.
re-read it and try again.

[Katman]

And anyway, getting back to the matter in hand.......

Is no-one curious as to the settlement amounts for successful vaccine injury claims?

Like, if you found out that someone was awarded a sum numbering in the hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even into the millions), would you at least say to yourself "fuck me, that must have been a fucking severe allergic reaction" or would you maintain an air of complete disinterest? (Like I suspect TDL would).

[TheDemonLord]

Weird he may well be - the reference material provided is more interesting than his blog - but your mind was probably already made up!

It was partially made up within the opening parapragh (his comments about thermisol for example), then after skim reading through it, I saw his creds and didn't recognise them, so I looked them up, and found them to be Bogus - that was the point my mind was fully made up.

[TheDemonLord]

have you perceived a dragon in your garage?

What matters (according to you) is that I say I have.

except it isn't and you're grasping for hurdles to fall over to reinforce your beliefs.

Then we have reached an Impasse, Because either Perceptions are 100% reliable (in which case you have to believe I have a dragon in my Garage) or Perceptions can be and frequently are wrong (which is my entire argument)

i never did.

It was subtle, but you did - you said that 80% experience or perceive god, based on the popular belief of who/what god is.

not that i have any evidence that it isn't. do you?

I've flown around the world (across the Pacific and across the Atlantic), the Law of Gravity by some extrapolation means that an object must be spherical, and finally distant objects are only seen by their top most feature when on a 'flat' surface (ie the Ocean)

no, im pretty sure i know what i know. and that infact there's nothing i don't know, as far as im aware.

I'll come back to this

no. no it really isn't.

Why? because that would make you borderline insane? Kinda sums up my views on people with a deistic beliefs...

according to whom

I'll concede there is debate - but most Theologians tend to define God as have conscious, will and thought, which is different from Energy (which is absent of these things) - I've seen debates about God = Energy, and most tend to stick with the definition that I am using (mainly because Plucky Atheists say that if God has no conscious will and thought, he's not really a god then is he)

so, except for some, all laws are constant. as far as you can perceive. glad we could clear that up, that this is a your-failing-perception issue rather than a fact issue.

Laws and constants are not subject to perception, a proof of a law is objective - that is the fundamental difference - it's one of the reasons that Science (as a method for explaining why things are) has been vastly more successful than any other method.

according to whom

No one, that was Reductio ad absurdum

then i'd roll and smoke it.


you'll have to be a bit clearer. i must have missed it in the waffle.

Maybe if you laid off the Rolling and the Smoking you wouldn't have missed it

I said I would come back to this comment:

no, im pretty sure i know what i know. and that infact there's nothing i don't know, as far as im aware.

I admit that everything I do is from a position of Ignorance, and in recognizing this fact, I go out into the world to learn and to maybe make that position of Ignorance a tiny bit smaller. This is the very foundation of the Scientific mind - The statement 'I know' is not as profound as the statement 'I do not know' - for where we do not know, there is the chance for discovery and Knowledge.

And then we come to your statement that there is nothing you don't know that you are aware of. How then do you acquire new knowledge? Or have you closed your mind off so completely as to not care? Either way, I pity you if that is your world view, I can't think of anything more boring.

yes, wait indeed, because that was irrelevant as fuck.
re-read it and try again.

Step 2 from Mashie's playbook - Something disproves my entire world view - let's just dismiss it as irrelevant.

[TheDemonLord]

And anyway, getting back to the matter in hand.......

Is no-one curious as to the settlement amounts for successful vaccine injury claims?

Like, if you found out that someone was awarded a sum numbering in the hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even into the millions), would you at least say to yourself "fuck me, that must have been a fucking severe allergic reaction" or would you maintain an air of complete disinterest? (Like I suspect TDL would).

Did ya factor in that the US doesn't have subsidized health Care? So a Premature birth, with 2 months of Neonatal care: $900,000, also the precedents with regards to emotional distress etc. I really wouldn't be surprised if a compensation package went into the Millions in the US

[Katman]

I admit that everything I do is from a position of Ignorance, and in recognizing this fact, I go out into the world to learn and to maybe make that position of Ignorance a tiny bit smaller.

Well that exercise has been a dismal failure for you then, hasn't it?

[TheDemonLord]

Well that exercise has been a dismal failure for you then, hasn't it?

Well, considering how often I'm able to beat you soundly in a debate to the point where you just start hurling insults, red repping and generally acting like a child who has just been told 'No', I'd beg to differ.

(plus I'm able to use Google without being told to)

[Akzle]

What matters (according to you) is that I say I have.



Then we have reached an Impasse, Because either Perceptions are 100% reliable (in which case you have to believe I have a dragon in my Garage) or Perceptions can be and frequently are wrong (which is my entire argument)

except that you've never asserted you have perceived a dragon, you just bowled a hypothetical.

It was subtle, but you did - you said that 80% experience or perceive god, based on the popular belief of who/what god is.

i don't do subtle. i stated fairly explicitly.
a) who PERCEIVED the world to be flat, not just ran with the science of the day ?
b) do you truly mean to say that no-one like me existed that, if not just to be contrary, would say "no, more of a round shape"?

I've flown around the world (across the Pacific and across the Atlantic), the Law of Gravity by some extrapolation means that an object must be spherical, and finally distant objects are only seen by their top most feature when on a 'flat' surface (ie the Ocean)

really? or were you put into a metal thing with engines and flappy bits, drugged, hypnotised and taken to a truman-esque set of "another country"

Why? because that would make you borderline insane? Kinda sums up my views on people with a deistic beliefs...

...borderline

Laws and constants are not subject to perception, a proof of a law is objective

objective... as perceived by scientists.

No one, that was Reductio ad absurdum

no that was reductio ad stupidum, you being the provider of stupid.
that's not logic at all. that's you, yet again, applying your own prejudice to achieve digestable confirmation bias for your tum-tum.

Maybe if you laid off the Rolling and the Smoking you wouldn't have missed it

maybe if you actually had a point you could articulate it.

And then we come to your statement that there is nothing you don't know that you are aware of.

and then we insert an image with you implied as a dot referenced by an arrow and the word "point"

Step 2 from Mashie's playbook - Something disproves my entire world view - let's just dismiss it as irrelevant.

excepting you didn't disprove shit.
just said some literally, objectively, empirically irrelevant shit.

[Katman]

Did ya factor in that the US doesn't have subsidized health Care? So a Premature birth, with 2 months of Neonatal care: $900,000, also the precedents with regards to emotional distress etc. I really wouldn't be surprised if a compensation package went into the Millions in the US

Yeah, I imagine the costs associated with managing a permanent dose of encephalopathy would be astronomical.

[Katman]

Well, considering how often I'm able to beat you soundly in a debate.....