Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[TheDemonLord]

You mean they're motorcyclists too ... ???

All the ones I've met personally aren't - but then we do have Katman - so, who knows....

As long as they have a crash helmet and a leather jacket of some kind ... what could possibly go wrong ... ??

Well, given the progress of Society, I wouldn't be surprised if that soon becomes a reality....

But to be clear on the actual point - as Parents, just about everything we do with our Children has a risk of them dying associated with it. Going to the Beach, Going to a Swimming Pools, Driving in a Car, Going to Sleep etc. etc.

All of those, however, have a definitive positive effect - which is why we are happy to take the Risk and we also know that the risk of our child dying is exceptionally small.

Katman was maintaining that there's a Risk with Vaccines (which, to be fair, is true) and claiming because there is a risk, they shouldn't be used.

However, that argument omits several salient points:

1: There is a benefit to taking the risk of the Vaccine
2: There is NO benefit to taking the risk of contracting the Disease
3: The death rate from the Vaccine is rarer than 1 in 1,000,000 doses - and given the known risk of an Allergic reaction, there is an observation period that if a reaction occurs - immediate first aid can be administered. The death rate from Measles, however, is 1 in 10,000.

So taken that all into consideration - on the one hand you take a 1 in 10,000 risk of Death for your or someone elses child with no benefit or you take a 1 in 1,000,000 risk of Death and you protect your child from being a carrier and infecting others.

If we agree on nothing else - can you provide me a reason why a 1 in 10,000 risk with no benefit is the better option?

[FJRider]

All of those, however, have a definitive positive effect - which is why we are happy to take the Risk and we also know that the risk of our child dying is exceptionally small.

Known risks we dither about and discuss to death. Unknown risks we are happy to ignore. I would say that if all those that died accidentally met in the afterlife ... their common comment would be ... "I never expected that would happen" ...

Katman was maintaining that there's a Risk with Vaccines (which, to be fair, is true) and claiming because there is a risk, they shouldn't be used.

He's entitled to his opinion. Just as you are. Your continued argument wont change that. Get over yourself ...

If we agree on nothing else - can you provide me a reason why a 1 in 10,000 risk with no benefit is the better option?

Known risks we dither about and discuss to death. Unknown risks we are happy to ignore. I would say that if all those that died accidentally met in the afterlife ... their common comment would be ... "I never expected that would happen" ... and yes I know I've repeated myself. As have you. Again ... and again ... and again. Has anybody changed their opinion ... ???

[TheDemonLord]

He's entitled to his opinion. Just as you are. Your continued argument wont change that. Get over yourself ...

Sure - but in this case, his opinion has resulted in the preventable Deaths of Children.

Do you not think that such a burden on mere 'opinion' is worth a rebuttal?

You've agreed that those responsible for their actions should be held accountable by the Law - does that not provide an obligation then to refute, vigorously - at length and ad nauseum the spread of BS that has the above mentioned consequences?

Edit:

At the very least, someone who happened across this thread and was in the process of making up their mind would be presented with both sides to the argument - again, is that not worth a bit of repetition?

And finally - what is Repetition to you? You are certainly under no obligation to read or post in this thread - so why the objection?

Known risks we dither about and discuss to death. Unknown risks we are happy to ignore. I would say that if all those that died accidentally met in the afterlife ... their common comment would be ... "I never expected that would happen" ... and yes I know I've repeated myself. As have you. Again ... and again ... and again. Has anybody changed their opinion ... ???

So that would be a "No, there is no reason why it's a better option" then.

I'll re-state (since we are repeating ourselves) that if the decision and consequences to not vaccinate were limited solely to those people who opted out, then Fine - but unless you would support quarantining them away from society, then their decision has consequences for Me, My Own and the Wider NZ society.

[Berries]

At the very least, someone who happened across this thread and was in the process of making up their mind would be presented with both sides to the argument - again, is that not worth a bit of repetition?

Anyone who makes a decision about vaccination based on a thread on a motorcycle forum should have their children taken off them and be sterilised so it does not happen again.

[Katman]

If it's the study you posted last time - no, it's not.

It's predicated on a speculation, made by a group with some rather dubious pasts, with no experimental data done.

I'm not basing my statement on any particular study.

I'm saying that one of the uses of polysorbate 80 in pharmacology is to get certain medication past the blood brain barrier.

Don't just take my word for it though. Google 'polysorbate 80 blood brain barrier'.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm not basing my statement on any particular study.

It's predicated on scientific study.

Would you like to take a moment to get your story straight?

[Katman]

Would you like to take a moment to get your story straight?

Dude, google it.

There are scientific studies out there.

[Katman]

Would you like to take a moment to get your story straight?

Would it help you to understand what I meant if I said "I'm not basing my statement on any one particular study"?

My use of the words 'scientific study' are in the context of scientific study as a field.

And here was me thinking English was your first language.

My apologies.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm not basing my statement on any particular study.

It's predicated on scientific study.

Dude, google it.

There are scientific studies out there.

Would it help you to understand what I meant if I said "I'm not basing my statement on any one particular study"?

My use of the words 'scientific study' are in the context of scientific study as a field.

And here was me thinking English was your first language.

My apologies.

Well, that is some epic Backpedaling and reversals.

Is it Scientific Study the field or is it Scientific Studies as in published papers? You seem quite confused. Perhaps if you knew what you were on about, you'd be able to articulate it in a clear Manner?

[Katman]

Well, that is some epic Backpedaling and reversals.

Is it Scientific Study the field or is it Scientific Studies as in published papers? You seem quite confused. Perhaps if you knew what you were on about, you'd be able to articulate it in a clear Manner?

There's certainly no 'epic backpedaling or reversals' there. I'm merely explaining what I meant to someone who seems to struggle with English comprehension.

Are you upset because I didn't use as many capital letters as you would have?

[matt.of.the.ingh]

I don't want to put words in the demon lord mouth, but I think we are all upset that you refuse to accept the masses of evidence we've sent you, whilst relying on discredited informant from unreliable sources.

Personally, I realise that you actually couldn't care less. This is just you being a dick.

To answer FJRiders point about being entitled to opinions... Yeah, we are entitled to think what we like. But not to perform acts which harm others. Children can't make informed decisions. Their parents already have a legal duty of care to protect them. This is a part of that duty of care. Not vaccinating your children will cause them unnecessary pain, suffering and possibly death.
(Allergic reactions are literally a million to one chance, so don't even bother with that ridiculous argument Katman.)
Not only do you cause harm to your own kids, but by weakening herd immunity and allowing the disease opportunity to reproduce you cause harm to everyone else.
This isn't a matter of opinion, these are simple to understand, well documented facts. How is getting your kids vaccinated different from anything else you have to do to protect your kids?

How long would you last if you claimed that some fella on the internet said that under fives don't need food, or that making teen-agers wash will weaken their immune systems? There are laws in place to protect children from stupid parents, this should be another of those rules. Not because it's a nanny state, but because idiots also have babies.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Katman]

...but I think we are all upset...

You should post up a photo of yourself crying so we can all see just how upset you are.

[Katman]

.....but because idiots also have babies.

And there's a few here who have proven that statement to be absolutely true.

[TheDemonLord]

There's certainly no 'epic backpedaling or reversals' there. I'm merely explaining what I meant to someone who seems to struggle with English comprehension.

Are you upset because I didn't use as many capital letters as you would have?

Or, you're diverting from the fact that you were caught contradicting yourself and are furiously scrabbling to retain some semblance of Composure.

[TheDemonLord]

I don't want to put words in the demon lord mouth, but I think we are all upset

This is not my first argument with Katman, nor will it likely be the last - Upset - not really, although of all the Conspiracies that Katman subscribes to, I hold a particular Venom for Anti-Vaxxers that I don't hold for any other viewpoint.

Mainly these days I simply come here to Argue...