Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[Katman]

Then post up the Quotation if you are so sure you are right. It'd make a change for you.

Believe me, I looked - but the search function on this site is fucked.

Go on, try it. In the advanced search page I used 'autism' as the key word and your user name as the poster.

It comes back as 'no matches found'. And yet, we both know there are many times you've used the word 'autism'.

But hey, I'm sure someone will stumble upon it one day.

Your denial of it comes across as nothing other than embarrassment.

[Graystone]

Believe me, I looked - but the search function on this site is fucked.

Go on, try it. In the advanced search page I used 'autism' as the key word and your user name as the poster.

It comes back as 'no matches found'. And yet, we both know there are many times you've used the word 'autism'.

But hey, I'm sure someone will stumble upon it one day.

Your denial of it comes across as nothing other than embarrassment.

Search works fine, did you make the words and click the thingo? Funnily enough, he has three pages of posts to your five for that keyword.

If there is one thing we cant count on from ToDoLists, it's to never say anything he can't self delude his way out of, just the same as you do; so I have no doubt that any admissions of his autism will be dismissed as nothing of the sort...

[TheDemonLord]

Believe me, I looked - but the search function on this site is fucked.

Go on, try it. In the advanced search page I used 'autism' as the key word and your user name as the poster.

It comes back as 'no matches found'. And yet, we both know there are many times you've used the word 'autism'.

But hey, I'm sure someone will stumble upon it one day.

Your denial of it comes across as nothing other than embarrassment.

What's that? Caught making shit up again? Colour me surprised.

I'll simply repeat that I've admitted to having character traits that can be symptoms of Autism, but they are, in fact, symptoms of another condition, that is NOT on the Autism spectrum, that I most certainly DO have.

Search works fine, did you make the words and click the thingo? Funnily enough, he has three pages of posts to your five for that keyword.

If there is one thing we cant count on from ToDoLists, it's to never say anything he can't self delude his way out of, just the same as you do; so I have no doubt that any admissions of his autism will be dismissed as nothing of the sort...

I'll be charitable and put the above down to skim reading and apathy, but to be clear - I DO have a condition, it's not Autism, not even on the Autism spectrum, but it does share some of the symptoms with Autism - that's all I've ever admitted to.

[Graystone]

I'll be charitable and put the above down to skim reading and apathy

Your self delusions have repeatedly shown that is all you are worthy of.

[TheDemonLord]

So ... him agreeing in principal to this opinion ... is in your proof of his liability in the deaths of children that he had no control of ... or input into the decisions made at that time.

Sounds fair ... (NOT)

Promoting demonstrably false information that results in Death. He does have control as to whether he actively promotes these Ideas. One can have an opinion and keep it entirely to oneself, but as evidence by the MULTIPLE thread necros by Katman, this is not the case.

Is it Fair? Well, That's an interesting concept - because whether or not it's fair depends on the degree of Complicity with the action. You might reason Katman's responses away as being Small and insignificant - so too is the lowly Ant, but an Army of them can wreak havoc. Same too with the Nuremberg defence - that guilt could not be applied due to the individual only having a small part in something larger.

Putting children into the child safety seat is required by law in most civilized countries of the world. Vaccinations ... not so. The difference is a matter of conscience ... not LAW.

Right - Both are to guard someone vulnerable against potential Harm. One is mandated, one is not - you say the difference is a matter of Conscience: For you, what is the underlying philosophical difference (as you see it) that requires different courses of action?

He is entitled to his opinion. In my opinion ... the law of gravity will overrule his opinion. And the planet Earth will continue to rotate. And life as we know it will go on ...

Right - now what if his action to jump, doesn't actually effect him, but instead could cause someone else, most likely a child, serious injury or Death - would you still let him do it?

If not required by law ... totally optional. Personal choice. You don't like being told to do things you don't want to ... even if you are required by law to do so. Why argue when the matter is optional .. ??

Sounds an awful lot like an Appeal to Legislation: "It's not against the law, therefore it must be okay" - was Slavery bad? There are many things that the Law says I have to do that I don't particularly like - Paying Taxes (for example) - yet, I acknowledge that these things are the cost of entry, to gain all the benefits of Society. So from that we accept certain limitations on individual freedom, in order to have a functional society. The Question is - is this one of those Areas where a limitation should be applied.

If you want my full honest opinion - I would prefer that everyone would dismiss the Anti-Vaxx BS for exactly what it is, bad science done by people wishing to profiteer (which is ironic given the claims against Big Pharma) off of ailments. And that the Question of whether we should mandate it would be unnecessary as people would be able to voluntarily make the correct choice.

But seeing as that's not the case - like many things in life, when enough people fail to make the correct choice and end up Harming others, the government has to step in.

It's optional. A simple and the only relevant fact.

Right - so you ask for Facts, then proceed to summarily dismiss them...

To save the world .. you'll need to work harder to convince anybody. Good luck with that ...

To be honest, I think the only way to convince Anti-Vaxxers is to have them hold their own child in their arms, whilst the Child is dying from a preventable disease, the sad thing is - there are some that I don't think would even be convinced by that.

In such circumstances death is expected. Even budgeted for by the respective governments. And by no means illegal.

Glad you agree, so if the above is true - it stands to reason that in some circumstances, a small amount of unavoidable death in the pursuit of greater outcome IS acceptable.

If you have proof that Katman caused harm in any way to others ... you are duty bound by law to report it to Police ... have you done so yet. If not ... WHY NOT ...

Because reporting it to the Police isn't what is needed - what would be needed would be a Test Case in the High Courts to see if Legal Precedent could be set - that would require many thousands of Man hours and hundreds of Thousands of Dollars I simply do not have. In regards to Oldie's post from Australia, where Medical Professionals can be sanctioned, that could form part of a legal precedent for such an Action, you could also look to the US case Law - where 7/9 test cases in the last 120 years have sided that not Vaccinating is the same as withholding treatment - which is a form of Child Abuse.

It would be an interesting Case for certain..

Not NZ stat's ... don't care about other countries. I probably wont go there ... so irrelevant.

Well that's just being Petty, comparing similar countries (where the data IS available) is a valid technique.

You will never make a point with rough figures ... if you can't be bothered don't bother.

Well, there's no such thing as truly precise figures, all figures have elements of uncertainty about them. The point being that even with some quick calculations - the data supports the premise.

When was the last immediate death from measles in NZ ... ??

That's a loaded question, because you are trying to disprove the effects of the Disease, whilst simultaneously being protected from the effects of the disease from the very thing you are critiquing.

[TheDemonLord]

Your self delusions have repeatedly shown that is all you are worthy of.

Sounds like someone's being a little Able-ist...

[Katman]

To be honest, I think the only way to convince Anti-Vaxxers is to have them hold their own child in their arms, whilst the Child is dying from a preventable disease, the sad thing is - there are some that I don't think would even be convinced by that.

Seriously, could you sound any more hysterical?

[TheDemonLord]

Seriously, could you sound any more hysterical?

There is nothing Hysterical about it. That you think there is, is part of the problem.

[matt.of.the.ingh]

Search works fine, did you make the words and click the thingo? Funnily enough, he has three pages of posts to your five for that keyword.

If there is one thing we cant count on from ToDoLists, it's to never say anything he can't self delude his way out of, just the same as you do; so I have no doubt that any admissions of his autism will be dismissed as nothing of the sort...

By he, do you mean demon lord? I've seen him mention autism loads in just this thread, all of them denying that he has it.
Everyone has Autistic tenancies, that's why it's referred to as a spectrum.

I've also read him repeatedly using clear evidence and correctly understood statistics to prove his points.

Demon lord, I think you may be bring to harsh by saying they are deliberately being malicious, I think that's making them mass and adding them thinking, or reading carefully what you say. They're just not that smart.
Seriously, check the comments about the bike helmet analogy, that's year four levels of comprehension and they consistently miss it whilst thinking their clever....

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Katman]

Demon lord, I think you may be bring to harsh by saying they are deliberately being malicious, I think that's making them mass and adding them thinking, or reading carefully what you say. They're just not that smart.

Oh the irony.

[husaberg]

Like I've said, you seem to struggle with basic English comprehension.

Anyhow, have you learned anything about polysorbate 80 yet?

So whats your issue with a very common ice cream ingredient that is also used in some Vaccines.
Regale me with exactly what your issue with it be used in minute quantities to keep the ingredients in suspension.
Why is it it suddenly intersts you do think that is somehow dangerous when used in vaccine.
If so do you have any evidence to suggest the levels used in vaccine or any food is somehow dangerous

[Katman]

So whats your issue with a very common ice cream ingredient that is also used in some Vaccines.

I'm assuming you don't inject your ice-cream.

[husaberg]

I'm assuming you don't inject your ice-cream.

This is not an awswer so spill the vanilla flavored beans.
What are you concerns and what are they based on this time a hunch some kook or scientific facts?
polysorbate 80 is a very common food ingredient that has been used for years with no issues when used inside many foods at far greater concentrations.
So why do you now think its noteworth for your next conspiracy hypothesis.

[Katman]

This is not an awswer so spill the vanilla flavored beans.
What are you concerns and what are they based on this time a hunch some kook or scientific facts?

Do yourself a favour and read up on the pharmacological uses of polysorbate 80.

[FJRider]

By he, do you mean demon lord? I've seen him mention autism loads in just this thread, all of them denying that he has it.
Everyone has Autistic tenancies, that's why it's referred to as a spectrum.

Is english your second language ... or does the meaning of big words (you don't really understand or can pronounce) confuse you ... ???

Tenancies ... possession of land or property as a tenant.

Tendencies ... (probably the word you were intending) an inclination towards a particular characteristic or type of behavior.