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Thread: Thinking of getting vaccinated?

  1. #4666
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    As much I'm loathe to cite it as a source:

    http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/...dg4K&ocid=iehp

    This raises a very interesting possibility of a precedent - If an individually can be charged with knowingly infected people.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    actually - I'm more interested if this does go to court as to what legal precedents it may set.
    Its only a small step beyond the antivaxers anti medicine couple convicted of failing to provide the necessities for life when their child died of menigitis.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3298261/a...ingitis-death/

    But for the missionary to be found guilty it would have to be proven he knew or it was reasonable for him to know he would be exposing them to deadly diseases.
    In the canada case the parents thought they knew better than modern medicine much like katman
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




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  2. #4667
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Its only a small step beyond the antivaxers anti medicine couple convicted of failing to provide the necessities for life when their child died of menigitis.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3298261/a...ingitis-death/

    But for the missionary to be found guilty it would have to be proven he knew or it was reasonable for him to know he would be exposing them to deadly diseases.
    In the canada case the parents thought they knew better than modern medicine much like katman

    Out of curiosity did you get Koi ( https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...-friends-(koi) ) vaccinated while you were at it?

  3. #4668
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzardNZ View Post
    Out of curiosity did you get Koi ( https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...-friends-(koi) ) vaccinated while you were at it?
    My children are vaccinated i can really speak for others. Do you have children and are they vaccinated?
    There was a thread a while back where some people were asking about you in wellington, by the sound of it they were trying to reach out and get in touch. You should go find it and arrange to meet up with them in person by sounds of it you could do with meeting some new people, they certainly seemed keen to meet up with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  4. #4669
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    In the canada case the parents thought they knew better than modern medicine much like katman
    The Canadian couple were prosecuted for failing to seek medical treatment for their son's illness.

    As I've pointed out already, vaccinations aren't the 'treatment' of an illness.

  5. #4670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    The Canadian couple were prosecuted for failing to seek medical treatment for their son's illness.

    As I've pointed out already, vaccinations aren't the 'treatment' of an illness.
    Thats odd because the courts thought the charges were "failing to provide the necessities of life"
    Also the father who was found guilty said this
    David has dubbed the proceedings a “vaccine trial,” claiming the Crown represents the “vaccine agenda.” He says authorities are “looking to create the legal precedent through the court system that when a child falls ill, parents who chose not to vaccinate have a greater onus to seek mainstream medical attention sooner than parents that do vaccinate, and if any harm befalls the non-vaccinated child from an illness that there was a vaccine for, the parents can be held criminally liable.”
    So maybe the plantif is wrong and like you paranoid and you are right about his trial. but you need to convice the court they got the charges wrong and the plantif what the trial was about first.
    Anytime you want to further discuss the Canadian anti vaxers who were convicted, that's fine but its going to happen after the Cannabis Autism link is discussed not before.
    You too afraid or what, Cat got ya tongue gerbil-er
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  6. #4671
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    So maybe the plantif is wrong and like you paranoid and you are right about his trial. but you need to convice the court they got the charges wrong and the plantif what the trial was about first.
    The parents were prosecuted for failing to seek medical attention for their son's illness.

    They weren't prosecuted for failing to vaccinate their son.

  7. #4672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    The parents were prosecuted for failing to seek medical attention for their son's illness.

    They weren't prosecuted for failing to vaccinate their son.
    Refer to previous post in full

    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Thats odd because the courts thought the charges were "failing to provide the necessities of life"
    Also the father who was found guilty said this
    David has dubbed the proceedings a “vaccine trial,” claiming the Crown represents the “vaccine agenda.” He says authorities are “looking to create the legal precedent through the court system that when a child falls ill, parents who chose not to vaccinate have a greater onus to seek mainstream medical attention sooner than parents that do vaccinate, and if any harm befalls the non-vaccinated child from an illness that there was a vaccine for, the parents can be held criminally liable.”
    So maybe the plantif is wrong and like you paranoid and you are right about his trial. but you need to convice the court they got the charges wrong and the plantif what the trial was about first.
    Anytime you want to further discuss the Canadian anti vaxers who were convicted, that's fine but its going to happen after the Cannabis Autism link is discussed not before.
    You too afraid or what, Cat got ya tongue gerbil-er
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  8. #4673
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    Refer to previous post in full
    I don't imagine there would be anyone these days who would deny there are a whole raft of things that a pregnant mother could do that might cause harm or developmental issues for their unborn child.

    That's why women are advised to not smoke or drink alcohol during pregnancy.

    (They're even advised to avoid eating too much of certain types of fish).

    So no-one is disputing that there may be a number of environmental issues involved here but as I've already said, if those environmental issues have caused harm to the child, they would be expected to manifest themselves from childbirth.

    It doesn't explain the sudden decline in a child immediately following vaccination.

    Interestingly though, the flu vaccine that pregnant mothers are advised to have, often still contains mercury.

  9. #4674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I don't imagine there would be anyone these days who would deny there are a whole raft of things that a pregnant mother could do that might cause harm or developmental issues for their unborn child.

    That's why women are advised to not smoke or drink alcohol during pregnancy.

    (They're even advised to avoid eating too much of certain types of fish).

    So no-one is disputing that there may be a number of environmental issues involved here but as I've already said, if those environmental issues have caused harm to the child, they would be expected to manifest themselves from childbirth.

    It doesn't explain the sudden decline in a child immediately following vaccination.
    First Autism is predominately a genetic condition paased on from one or both parents. this is a medical fact.
    Research tells us that autism tends to run in families. Changes in certain genes increase the risk that a child will develop autism. If a parent carries one or more of these gene changes, they may get passed to a child (even if the parent does not have autism). Other times, these genetic changes arise spontaneously in an early embryo or the sperm and/or egg that combine to create the embryo. Again, the majority of these gene changes do not cause autism by themselves. They simply increase risk for the disorder
    Second there is Autism’s environmental risk factors
    Research also shows that certain environmental influences may further increase – or reduce – autism risk in people who are genetically predisposed to the disorder. Importantly, the increase or decrease in risk appears to be small for any one of these risk factors:
    Third there are other factors
    Increased risk Advanced parent age (either parent) Pregnancy and birth complications (e.g. extreme prematurity [before 26 weeks], low birth weight, multiple pregnancies [twin, triplet, etc.]) Pregnancies spaced less than one year apart
    Decreased risk Prenatal vitamins containing folic acid, before and at conception and through pregnancy
    As i already explained there is no evidence to suggest any of the ingredients at the rates used in vaccines damage the receptors in the brain most readily identified in people suffering from Autism.
    below is a massive run of studies conducted over 20 years with 1000's of subjects
    https://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...-Evidence.aspx
    There is however reams of evidence that shows Cannabis does effect those exact receptors. Which you refuse to discuss.
    In utero exposure to drugs that interact with neural pathways has been implicated as an important risk factor for ASD. Cannabis/ tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is the most widely used psychotropic drug; its use has increased substantially over the past 20 years; moreover, more recent formulations of the drug display enhanced potency due to changes in preparation methods [17]. Currently, cannabis use during pregnancy is estimated at 10%. Recent studies by Passey et al. [18] and Shabani et al. [19] have shown that neural deficits can result from in utero cannabis exposure. Moreover, Siniscalco et al. [20] have suggested that the endocannabinoid (EC) system may play an important role in the integrated IS/CNS developmental pathway that is dysregulated in autism. Their research has shown that the cannabinoid receptor type 2(CBR2) signal pathway is upregulated in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) from children with ASD. This finding raises the possibility that the endocannabinoid (EC) system may be associated with ASD. In addition, the authors found reduced levels of bone marrow differentiated macrophages (BMDCs) in children with ASD that may be linked to altered CBR-2 levels.
    Endogenous cannabinoids bind to type-1 cannabinoid receptors in the central nervous system (CNS) to guide neural pattern formation and network connectivity in the developing brain. Research by Cutando et al. provides evidence that THC binding of EC-1 receptors as a consequence of subchronic cannabis exposure may affect these signal pathways, at least in part, by activating microglial cells important to neural function [21]. Similar patterns of cerebellar microglial activation have been documented in the brains of autistic children, suggesting similar pathways may be involved. Tortoriello et al. [22] have recently determined that THC affects EC-1 receptor signaling in the developing fetal brain by altering fetal cortical circuitry, further implicating THC as a potential cause of autism.
    Researchers from Georgetown University Medical Center combed through papers studying cannabinoids and their effect on human embryos, using mostly animal models published between 1975 and 2015. They found that Tetrahydrocannabinol or THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, can cross the placenta thus exposing the fetus to the chemical.

    “We know from limited human studies that use of marijuana in early pregnancy is associated with many of the same risks as tobacco, including miscarriage, birth defects, developmental delays and learning disabilities, but animal research suggests the potential for many more developmental issues linked with the drug
    Cannabinoids can affect the use of folic acid, which is important for normal growth and development of the placenta and the embryo. A deficiency in folic acid can cause low birth weight, increase the risk of spontaneous abortion and neural tube defects like spina bifida.
    Over the course of two years, Dr. Lucy Troup studied the long-term effects of 70 participants who either smoked cannabis, smoked casually, or smoked chronically, according to self-reported data. The study took place in three parts: an implicit emotion test, an explicit emotion text, and an empathy test, where volunteers were asked to view a facial emotion—positive, neutral, or negative—and were rated on their ability to empathize. One of the most surprising results was that cannabis users generally had lower empathy ratings than the control group.
    This result has opened up questions around weed and autism, though this current study has not looked directly at the link between the two. "I've been approached by a number of researchers who are very interested in the use of cannabis to treat autism and if the two are related or causal," Dr. Troup says. "We found that when you ask a cannabis user to think about other people's emotions and relate to them, it's harder for them. That inability to empathize would be a parallel to autistic-like behaviors.
    Additionally, Dr. Troup also asked participants to undergo an implicit emotional task. Both the control group of non-smokers and the cannabis users were hooked up to an electroencephalogram (EEG) while they were shown faces with positive, neutral, and negative facial expressions, but asked to focus on the sex of the face displayed. Later they were asked to recall the emotions they were shown, and the cannabis users faired much worse with this task than non-cannabis users. From these results, Dr. Troup infers that weed inhibits a person's ability to intuitively identify emotions when they're not explicitly focusing on them.
    Researchers also found that THC levels in marijuana that is smoked has increased 25-fold since 1970. The studies, however, did not analyze the harmful effects of smoking marijuana in the animals.
    All of the model systems point to the notion that cannabinoids affects many aspects of human development because THC and other chemicals alter molecular pathways that shouldn’t be disrupted during development of a fetus,” Gallicano said. Disruption of BDNF, an important neural pathway, can increase the risk of congenital disorder and can impair cognition as seen in autism.
    it is also not the smoking don't try and confuse the issue though making it about the smoking that doesn't help and has been shown to damage DNA in developing fetuses also.
    its the Drug itself THC a drug component in Cannabis that has got 25 times stronger in recent years.
    AS for you often trod out child's symptoms developing post vaccination
    There is no evidence to support this as has been spelled out between 15 months and two years is when children are able to be reliably diagnosed.
    https://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...-Evidence.aspx
    For instance children in japan are vaccinated later there is no coloration in their figures to support later development of Autism in fact quite the opposite as thy had a higher rate of autism when they vaccinated less.

    I have been following this thread for years not once have you ever posted anything as scientific or compelling to support Vaccine use has anything to do with Autism.
    Yet i spend 2 minutes on google i found a raft of information far more compelling to link Cannabis with ASD and you just want to ignore it.
    Anyone would think you could have a pro Cannabis agenda or something rather than any real interest in Autism
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  10. #4675
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    First Autism is predominately a genetic condition paased on from one or both parents. this is a medical fact.
    And I have never claimed that autism has nothing to do with genetics.

    In fact, the suggestion is that there are certain children who are genetically susceptible to an adverse reaction to vaccines.

  11. #4676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    And I have never claimed that autism has nothing to do with genetics.

    In fact, the suggestion is that there are certain children who are genetically susceptible to an adverse reaction to vaccines.
    Yet you have never been able to produce any credible supporting evidence "TO LINK VACCINATION TO AUTISM"
    Yet at the same time you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge there is credible scientific to link Cannabis and Autism risk factors via brain chemistry and risk factors and scientific studies.
    As you are doing now, as i said discuss it or just admit you have an agenda where you dont' want to discuss the apparent adverse effects of Cannabis use.
    better yet explain How can it be given you have been banging on about Vaccines and Autism for years yet you can't produce anything credible to support it.
    Yet i can google up a link between Cannabis and Autism in a few minutes with plenty or scientific data to support it.
    I dont care either way as its rather amusing watching you try and change the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  12. #4677
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    As you are doing now, as i said discuss it or just admit you have an agenda where you dont' want to discuss the apparent adverse effects of Cannabis use.
    Considering I have never supported the idea of pregnant women using cannabis (and in fact, I'd be the first to call them a stupid bitch if they did so), I'm not quite seeing your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    I dont care either way as its rather amusing watching you try and change the subject.
    It's not me trying to change the subject.

  13. #4678
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Yet you have never been able to produce any credible supporting evidence "TO LINK VACCINATION TO AUTISM"
    Yet at the same time you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge there is credible scientific to link Cannabis and Autism risk factors via brain chemistry and risk factors and scientific studies.
    As you are doing now, as i said discuss it or just admit you have an agenda where you dont' want to discuss the apparent adverse effects of Cannabis use.
    better yet explain How can it be given you have been banging on about Vaccines and Autism for years yet you can't produce anything credible to support it.
    Yet i can google up a link between Cannabis and Autism in a few minutes with plenty or scientific data to support it.
    I dont care either way as its rather amusing watching you try and change the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Considering I have never supported the idea of pregnant women using cannabis (and in fact, I'd be the first to call them a stupid bitch if they did so), I'm not quite seeing your point.
    It's not me trying to change the subject.
    Wow that was you really discussing ther holes in your whole premise and discussing why my 2 minute google searched turned up far more scientific merit than your years of rumour and inuendo your posted about vaccines
    Maybe if you didn't edit out half the posts and respond to it content you wouldn't look quite so evasive.

    In utero exposure to drugs that interact with neural pathways has been implicated as an important risk factor for ASD. Cannabis/ tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is the most widely used psychotropic drug; its use has increased substantially over the past 20 years; moreover, more recent formulations of the drug display enhanced potency due to changes in preparation methods [17]. Currently, cannabis use during pregnancy is estimated at 10%. Recent studies by Passey et al. [18] and Shabani et al. [19] have shown that neural deficits can result from in utero cannabis exposure. Moreover, Siniscalco et al. [20] have suggested that the endocannabinoid (EC) system may play an important role in the integrated IS/CNS developmental pathway that is dysregulated in autism. Their research has shown that the cannabinoid receptor type 2(CBR2) signal pathway is upregulated in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) from children with ASD. This finding raises the possibility that the endocannabinoid (EC) system may be associated with ASD. In addition, the authors found reduced levels of bone marrow differentiated macrophages (BMDCs) in children with ASD that may be linked to altered CBR-2 levels.
    Endogenous cannabinoids bind to type-1 cannabinoid receptors in the central nervous system (CNS) to guide neural pattern formation and network connectivity in the developing brain. Research by Cutando et al. provides evidence that THC binding of EC-1 receptors as a consequence of subchronic cannabis exposure may affect these signal pathways, at least in part, by activating microglial cells important to neural function [21]. Similar patterns of cerebellar microglial activation have been documented in the brains of autistic children, suggesting similar pathways may be involved. Tortoriello et al. [22] have recently determined that THC affects EC-1 receptor signaling in the developing fetal brain by altering fetal cortical circuitry, further implicating THC as a potential cause of autism.
    Researchers from Georgetown University Medical Center combed through papers studying cannabinoids and their effect on human embryos, using mostly animal models published between 1975 and 2015. They found that Tetrahydrocannabinol or THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, can cross the placenta thus exposing the fetus to the chemical.

    “We know from limited human studies that use of marijuana in early pregnancy is associated with many of the same risks as tobacco, including miscarriage, birth defects, developmental delays and learning disabilities, but animal research suggests the potential for many more developmental issues linked with the drug
    Cannabinoids can affect the use of folic acid, which is important for normal growth and development of the placenta and the embryo. A deficiency in folic acid can cause low birth weight, increase the risk of spontaneous abortion and neural tube defects like spina bifida.
    Over the course of two years, Dr. Lucy Troup studied the long-term effects of 70 participants who either smoked cannabis, smoked casually, or smoked chronically, according to self-reported data. The study took place in three parts: an implicit emotion test, an explicit emotion text, and an empathy test, where volunteers were asked to view a facial emotion—positive, neutral, or negative—and were rated on their ability to empathize. One of the most surprising results was that cannabis users generally had lower empathy ratings than the control group.
    This result has opened up questions around weed and autism, though this current study has not looked directly at the link between the two. "I've been approached by a number of researchers who are very interested in the use of cannabis to treat autism and if the two are related or causal," Dr. Troup says. "We found that when you ask a cannabis user to think about other people's emotions and relate to them, it's harder for them. That inability to empathize would be a parallel to autistic-like behaviors.
    Additionally, Dr. Troup also asked participants to undergo an implicit emotional task. Both the control group of non-smokers and the cannabis users were hooked up to an electroencephalogram (EEG) while they were shown faces with positive, neutral, and negative facial expressions, but asked to focus on the sex of the face displayed. Later they were asked to recall the emotions they were shown, and the cannabis users faired much worse with this task than non-cannabis users. From these results, Dr. Troup infers that weed inhibits a person's ability to intuitively identify emotions when they're not explicitly focusing on them.
    Researchers also found that THC levels in marijuana that is smoked has increased 25-fold since 1970. The studies, however, did not analyze the harmful effects of smoking marijuana in the animals.
    Because conversely there is no credible basis to say that there is any link between autism and Vaccination. Despite your protestations All the evidence points out the opposite.https://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...-Evidence.aspx

    Hardly surprising considering your history that you would wimp out when asked a question beyond your School C education and your Taupo online Conspiracy club.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  14. #4679
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    Wow that was you really discussing ther holes in your whole premise and discussing why my 2 minute google searched turned up far more scientific merit than your years of rumour and inuendo your posted about vaccines
    Maybe if you didn't edit out half the posts and respond to it content you wouldn't look quite so evasive.
    Well I suspect it's safe to say that cannabis has played no part in the autism of any child who's mother never used cannabis while pregnant.

  15. #4680
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    Yet what about those that did smoke or be exposed to canabis during pregnancy is it safe to say it scientifically could have lead to the child developing autism.
    Increased use of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) during childbearing years
    Are you still smarting from last nights embarrassment?

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