Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[Oscar]

Refer a mere four posts ago.

..and yet here we have idiots posting unsubstantiated theories (like vaccines weaken the immune system) that have their ONLY basis in correlation.

[mashman]

Correlation does not imply causation.
There's all the rational denial that's needed.

I know right. Fuckin' scientists and their scientific method wielding Occam's Razor like Victor Frankenstein.

[Oscar]

I know right. Fuckin' scientists and their scientific method wielding Occam's Razor like Victor Frankenstein.

You can't rationally deny an irrational proposition.

[Katman]

..and yet here we have idiots posting unsubstantiated theories (like vaccines weaken the immune system) that have their ONLY basis in correlation.

And like I said, even correlation deserves full and open consideration and investigation.

But you're so blinded by your 'questioning vaccines = anti-vax = fuckwit' viewpoint that you're willing to dismiss the idea of investigation in case it turns your little world upside down.

[mashman]

You can't rationally deny an irrational proposition.

Oh. I thought that that's exactly what science was for, you know, to decide what is and is not rational using rationality.

[Oscar]

Oh. I thought that that's exactly what science was for, you know, to decide what is and is not rational using rationality.

Not if you start irrationally like:The 2019 Influenza Vaccine and COVID-19 link


So he adds a correlation between Covid rates and Vaccine rates to a claim that 'Manufacturer's of vaccines have zero legal liability for the effects of their vaccines".
This is then translated to: ''There is no risk for them to recklessly and/or falsely promote their products through fear and false promises.''

Firstly, there is undoubtedly a correlation between Covid19 and people who have Flu Vaccines. But there is simply no evidence to prove a causative link between vaccines and Covid - you may as well draw a link between "people who drive cars and Covid".

Then, the statement about vaccine makers liability is simply wrong. He doesn't bother stating which jurisdiction he talking about, but there are certainly regulations in NZ and in Europe. Granted, the US has tried to limit liability, but it still exists in case law and statute.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/5/10-081901/en/

Vaccine-injury compensation programmes are increasingly regarded as an important component of successful vaccination programmes. They have been used for the past 50 years to ensure that individuals who are adversely affected in the interests of protecting the whole community are adequately compensated and cared for. There are a variety of schemes with different structures and approaches in use throughout the world. The schemes function most efficiently when they operate alongside well established, comprehensive national social welfare systems. In these countries, vaccine-injury compensation schemes have been found to have a relatively low administrative cost, especially compared to civil litigation cases.36,48

In the first decade of the 21st century, acceptance of vaccine-injury compensation has grown. Schemes are being enacted beyond industrialized Europe and North America. The importance of these schemes, based on ethical principles, has been stressed by parent groups, and claimants have reported satisfaction in having received compensation through a streamlined process.49,50 Apart from the reluctance of governments to move away from the adversarial approach to providing compensation, we believe there is a strong argument for widespread implementation of these programmes in other developed countries.

[Oscar]

And like I said, even correlation deserves full and open consideration and investigation.

But you're so blinded by your 'questioning vaccines = anti-vax = fuckwit' viewpoint that you're willing to dismiss the idea of investigation in case it turns your little world upside down.

Stop being obtuse.
There is no conclusive evidence or investigation backing the claim or implication that Vaccines cause COVID.
You are prepared, in the interests of being a contrarian sceptic, to allow him to make outrageous claims with no proof.
Your world is predicated on fuckwittery.

[mashman]

Not if you start irrationally like:The 2019 Influenza Vaccine and COVID-19 link


So he adds a correlation between Covid rates and Vaccine rates to a claim that 'Manufacturer's of vaccines have zero legal liability for the effects of their vaccines".
This is then translated to: ''There is no risk for them to recklessly and/or falsely promote their products through fear and false promises.''

Firstly, there is undoubtedly a correlation between Covid19 and people who have Flu Vaccines. But there is simply no evidence to prove a causative link between vaccines and Covid - you may as well draw a link between "people who drive cars and Covid".

Then, the statement about vaccine makers liability is simply wrong. He doesn't bother stating which jurisdiction he talking about, but there is certainly regulations in the country, and in Europe. Granted, the US has tried to limit liability, but it still exists in case law and statute.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/5/10-081901/en/

Vaccine injury courts exist also. Occams Razor states that instead of dying, or hitting any one of the numerous spectrum disorders, or potentially just having a new tic, or developing eczema etc... that wasn't there pre-vaccination and not monitored for, that it entirely plausible that the immune system is still damaged during repeated bombardments. That you might not like that does not prevent the hypothesis from be more than simply plausible.

[Katman]

There is no conclusive evidence or investigation backing the claim or implication that Vaccines cause COVID.

I don't think the linked article is claiming that flu vaccines 'cause' Covid-19 - but rather, it's suggesting that there appears to be a correlation between flu vaccines and the susceptibility to succumb to the effects of Covid-19.

[Oscar]

Vaccine injury courts exist also. Occams Razor states that instead of dying, or hitting any one of the numerous spectrum disorders, or potentially just having a new tic, or developing eczema etc... that wasn't there pre-vaccination and not monitored for, that it entirely plausible that the immune system is still damaged during repeated bombardments. That you might not like that does not prevent the hypothesis from be more than simply plausible.

It's not a matter of if I like it or not, it's whether you can prove it.
And there is no proof.

[Oscar]

I don't think the linked article is claiming that flu vaccines 'cause' Covid-19 - but rather, it's suggesting that there appears to be a correlation between flu vaccines and the susceptibility to succumb to the effects of Covid-19.

Fine. But the assertion that COVID is worse were flu vaccines are more prevalent is coincidental and not proven.

[Katman]

Fine.

See, the problem you have in discussing any topic rationally stems from your inability to comprehend basic English.

[mashman]

It's not a matter of if I like it or not, it's whether you can prove it.
And there is no proof.

We once had natural herd immunity to Coronavirus, we have lost it/are losing it. We are the proof that it didn't infect us to potential death over thousands of years. Occams Razor... unless you consider the virus to be man made?

[Oscar]

We once had natural herd immunity to Coronavirus, we have lost it/are losing it. We are the proof that it didn't infect us to potential death over thousands of years. Occams Razor... unless you consider the virus to be man made?

That's interesting - when was the herd immunity developed?

[Oscar]

See, the problem you have in discussing any topic rationally stems from your inability to comprehend basic English.

I can understand irony.