Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[mashman]

Perhaps you will learn otherwise...

Perhaps by looking into why Brian S Hooker's journal article on this topic has been retracted.

I'm not the one taking my post out of context

Thanks for proving that point... but you'll scare the natives into thinking the discussion was about what you thought I meant and not what I thought I meant. Oh noes... too late

This is probably the most objective critique / analysis of why the Hooker study was retracted.

http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/201...dia-guide.html

[bogan]

I'm not the one taking my post out of context

Implying it had any sort of relevant context to begin with.

As RDJ's link shows, the original data was thrown out for good reason. So the two options are; end sensationalist dribble, or keep digging.

Thanks for proving that point... but you'll scare the natives into thinking the discussion was about what you thought I meant and not what I thought I meant. Oh noes... too late

Oh wait, he's gone all 'I know what you think I meant but you don't know what I meant to mean', so too late I'll leave you to it, your digging requires no help.

[TheDemonLord]

125 years ago 1/2 of all children died before their 5th birthday (in Victorian England) - in Sub Saharan Africa today - its still about 1/4 - 1/6 of all children die. When you look at the stats, there is a sharp decrease in the mortality rate after the 1970's

Maybe because Smallpox (the biggest killer of people in Human history) was eradicated in 1979.

If you really think Vaccines are bad and evil - feel free to take your children to Sub Saharan Africa, far beyond the reaches of those nasty pharmaceutical companies.

And when they are dieing in Agony from preventable pathogens - I'll tell you "Thank Fuck, you aren't passing your stupid onto the next generation"

[mashman]

Implying it had any sort of relevant context to begin with.

As RDJ's link shows, the original data was thrown out for good reason. So the two options are; end sensationalist dribble, or keep digging.

Fact, not implication.

I believe that's what Thompson was saying i.e. keep digging/dig again.

Oh wait, he's gone all 'I know what you think I meant but you don't know what I meant to mean', so too late I'll leave you to it, your digging requires no help.

[Katman]

If you really think Vaccines are bad and evil......

See, this is why trying to have a sensible discussion with you is a waste of time.

Why do you assume that wanting to be told the truth about the risks associated with a vaccine automatically equates to thinking all vaccines are bad and evil?

[bogan]

See, this is why trying to have a sensible discussion with you is a waste of time.

Why do you assume that wanting to be told the truth about the risks associated with a vaccine automatically equates to thinking all vaccines are bad and evil?

Because you are biased against believing the truth unless it is an evil one. Just look at that article, you should have done as I did (or at least listened to what I was saying) and done some cursory background on the truth (read, science) behind it and dismissed it accordingly...

[TheDemonLord]

See, this is why trying to have a sensible discussion with you is a waste of time.

Why do you assume that wanting to be told the truth about the risks associated with a vaccine automatically equates to thinking all vaccines are bad and evil?

1: The only Causal link between MMR and Autism was by a disgraced scientist, funded by a rival Pharmaceutical company (you know - the same 'Big pharma' you are so suspicious of, except when it suits your agenda) - this paper has been discredited and retracted, completely - it should be as if this paper never existed, yet it is STILL cited by fuckwits (the Anti-Vax community)

2: There have been umpteen studies done since that study that show no causal link - yet none of these have persuaded the Anti-Vax crowd

3: with the likes of Jenny-no-scientific-credibility-what-so-ever-McCarthy - this is a classic example where rhetoric, Popularity/celebrity status and a Scientifically illiterate populace beat Science, Logic, Reason and Data

4: Since the introduction of Vaccines we have seen the infant mortality rate drop to from 50% in the west (500 in every 1000) to 0.4% (4 in every 1000) in the space of about 125 years - thanks mostly to Vaccination

5: Scientifically illiterate fuckwits (Anti-Vaxers) choose not to Vaccinate their children, thus weakening the entire concept of Herd Immunity (hint - this is how we Eradicated Small Pox in the wild) - Herd immunity is what protects those who can't have the Vaccine or have weaker immune systems.

So I will now ask a question - since there has never been a causal link shown between MMR and Autism - why do you need to be told the truth about something that has never existed?

And more importantly - why do you believe a debunked, discredited BS paper that was paid for by 'Big Pharma', when it that is entirely what you are arguing AGAINST?

I'll have a Sensible discussion with you when you educate yourself about how Vaccines work, Disease vectors, Pathology, the history of human suffering due to disease and virulent outbreaks pre and post vaccination etc. - however I suspect if you actually did that, you would realise how utterly and completely insane anyone is to suggest that Vaccinations are bad.

And for the record - My Daughter is up to date with her Vaccines.

[Ocean1]

It's sad to see Darwin in action.

But, y'know, fuck 'em, they're risk taking the rest of us with them.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/austral...whooping-cough

Her baby could be dead and she'd still insist she's right.

[Oakie]

And ... http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/austral...accine-dodgers

[Akzle]

uhhh... Children get chicken pox...

LAWDY LAWDY IT'S A FUCKEN//

wait. Wut. Children always have.
The pox as a children is better than the shingles as an adult... Natural immunity? Cant have that!

Hupping coff? Fuck right off. So all these vaccinated cunts, like, more than ever before, and the outbreak is worse than before. And only 2% are unvaccinated. And more than 2% are sick with it.
I'd love to know the overlap, but it sounds like an overwhelming bullshit.

[Oakie]

I stood in an overwhelming bullshit one day when I was out shooting rabbits.

[RDJ]

Walk some late-19th / early-20th century graveyards in Western Europe sometime. There are legions of children dead from diseases that are now completely preventable - along with many of their mothers who died before handwashing, anesthetics and safe obstetrics brought the maternal mortality rate down from horrific to just inevitable.

People who don't want to vaccinate their children and 'leave it to nature' would be roundly denounced by the many mothers of previous generations who could only have wished for a safe, effective and simple solution to stop their babies dying young from preventable illness.

Sheesh.

[Oakie]

Walk some late-19th / early-20th century graveyards in Western Europe sometime. There are legions of children dead from diseases that are now completely preventable - along with many of their mothers who died before handwashing, anesthetics and safe obstetrics brought the maternal mortality rate down from horrific to just inevitable.

People who don't want to vaccinate their children and 'leave it to nature' would be roundly denounced by the many mothers of previous generations who could only have wished for a safe, effective and simple solution to stop their babies dying young from preventable illness.

Sheesh.

And that's where the argument should end. But it won't.

[Ocean1]

uhhh... Children get chicken pox...

LAWDY LAWDY IT'S A FUCKEN//

wait. Wut. Children always have.
The pox as a children is better than the shingles as an adult... Natural immunity? Cant have that!

Hupping coff? Fuck right off. So all these vaccinated cunts, like, more than ever before, and the outbreak is worse than before. And only 2% are unvaccinated. And more than 2% are sick with it.
I'd love to know the overlap, but it sounds like an overwhelming bullshit.

Speaking of overwhelming bullshit; how about you show us where hooping cough vaccinations are higher than ever before, and a current outbreak is worse now than ever before.

[RDJ]

The incidence of whooping cough illness is currently rising in young adolescents (12/13-15) which very likely represents a cohort of unvaccinated kids growing up - who, because the amount of herd immunity present in their community when they were babies did not get infected although they were vulnerable then - and also likely respesents the effect of the reduced immunity conferred by the newer vaccine.*

The number of deaths from whooping cough is rising in small babies (under 3 months of age) because the effects of the anti-vaccine surrealists' campaign against vaccination have increased the likelihood of infection circulating - and thereby increasing the risk an infant will contract the illness and die.

* The earlier vaccine was a "whole cell" vaccine i.e. used all parts of the bacteria that causes whooping cough. It was very effective, but it had more side effects, including sore arms, crying, fussiness, anxiety, and occasional seizures... the latter especially not to be taken lightly. So a newer "acellular" vaccine was developed containing fewer antigenic components; it has fewer side effects than the older and works as well as whole cell vaccine in the first years after vaccination: BUT as time went on, immunity starts waning earlier. This would not matter as much if we had very high vaccine coverage as we could eliminate the spread of infection due to herd immunity - as has been done for smallpox and polio (except polio is making a comeback thanks to idiot Muslims in Muslim-majority countries: we're looking at you, Pakistan, Syria, Cameroon... but that's a whole other story - but when we can't get near-complete coverage, decreasing immunity leads to increasing numbers of cases in the non- and partially-immune. Especially as vaccinated people can still be carriers to the uninfected.