Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[Ruahine]

So has anyone given any consideration to the question of why Samoa has suffered such an unusually high death rate from this latest outbreak?

Could there be some truth to the suggestion that an over-zealous government response has seen vaccinations being administered to children who have already contracted the disease?

Simple. Take a country with low overall vaccination rate (30% coverage), a justified mistrust of the local medical service, vaccine hesitancy caused by botched administration of the MMR vaccine, coupled with a lack of local intensive care facilities.

The Samoan outbreak is sad example of how a lack of vaccination can result in what should be preventable deaths.

A good overview here:

https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2...-epidemic.html

[Katman]

Simple. Take a country with low overall vaccination rate (30% coverage), a justified mistrust of the local medical service, vaccine hesitancy caused by botched administration of the MMR vaccine, coupled with a lack of local intensive care facilities.

The Samoan outbreak is sad example of how a lack of vaccination can result in what should be preventable deaths.

A good overview here:

https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2...-epidemic.html

Well I'm not so sure that all those reasons explain the unusually high number of deaths.

Unfortunately, even if deaths have occurred due to the overwhelming of a child's immune system through a combination of the vaccine as well as the actual disease, we're not ever likely to hear about it through any official channels.

[TheDemonLord]

Well I'm not so sure that all those reasons explain the unusually high number of deaths.

Add in the high degree of interaction and closeness of a Samoan community - which means a high chance of transfer.

[Ocean1]

Well I'm not so sure that all those reasons explain the unusually high number of deaths.

The fact that your infantile preconceptions don't match reality definitely supports the reported facts.

Face it, dude, vaccines save lives, your imbecilic fetish with demonizing Big Pharma has no basis in reality.

[Katman]

Add in the high degree of interaction and closeness of a Samoan community - which means a high chance of transfer.

I'm well aware of the high chance of transfer.

It still doesn't explain the unusually high number of deaths.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm well aware of the high chance of transfer.

It still doesn't explain the unusually high number of deaths.

It really does.


You could also add in a splash that being relatively isolated - we are probably seeing something similar to the introduction of Influenza/Small Pox to indigenous tribes.

[Katman]

You could also add in a splash that being relatively isolated - we are probably seeing something similar to the introduction of Influenza/Small Pox to indigenous tribes.

It's hardly like it's the first time that Samoa has been exposed to measles.

[SaferRides]

There's been a couple of articles in the media. Primary healthcare is pretty much non existent for people in remote areas without transport, and many of those who died were under 12 months and had other illnesses such as pneumonia. There also seems to be a general mistrust of their health system so children weren't taken to hospital until they were really ill.

Anti-vaxxers trying to cure measles with vitamins probably haven't helped either.

[Banditbandit]

I'm well aware of the high chance of transfer.

It still doesn't explain the unusually high number of deaths.

Measles is wel-known as a potentially fatal disease ... Samoa's outbreak proves that statement .

What other explanation do you need?

If the Black death breaks out - are you going to ask why it killed so many people?

[pritch]

many of those who died were under 12 months and had other illnesses such as pneumonia.

People don't usually actually die of measles, they most commonly die of pneumonia or encephalitis attributable to the measles. I'm not sure that these can be described as "other illnesses" in the circumstances.

Samoa was visited by celeb anti vaxer Robert F Kennedy Jr who apparently proselytised his anti vax message. I wonder how he'd like to be slapped with 70 charges of accessory to manslaughter? (And counting.) That might shut some of the other idiots up.

According to the WHO there were 140,000 deaths from measles last year. What suggestion is there that the Samoan death toll is disproportionate to other unvaccinated rural populations?

One other thought, not mine. The point was made that most of the anti vaxers in the west are people whose parents ensured that they were fully protected by all of the recommended vaccinations. Interesting.

[Paul in NZ]

It's hardly like it's the first time that Samoa has been exposed to measles.

That is correct but if you look at the numbers it isn't as high a death rate as it was historically..

As of December 12, there were 4,995 confirmed cases of measles and 72 deaths, out of a Samoan population of 201,316. or roughly 1 death per 2,800

Measles was first reported when it arrived to Samoa in a MILD form in two epidemics at the end of 1891 and January 1893. At least 1,200 of 34,500 residents were killed in the outbreak, with the lack of vaccination contributing greatly to the mortality. At least 50% of the victims were adults but mortality was 1 per 29


Samoa, Tonga and Fiji have all declared states of emergency to tackle their 2019 measles outbreaks. The high mortality rate in Samoa is attributed to the low (31%) vaccination rate in Samoa. In Tonga and Fiji, the lack of fatalities is explained by the far higher vaccination rates.

[Ruahine]

Well I'm not so sure that all those reasons explain the unusually high number of deaths.

I'm not sure I would call them unusually high. Using Paul's figures, the current mortality rate in the Samoan outbreak is around 1.4% (72 deaths out of 4995 confirmed cases) which is in line with a recent report of global rates of measles mortality. People forget that measles can be an incredibly serious infection, especially in young children.

See this paper for an overview of measles mortality rates:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...14109X18305370

What is unusual is the low rate of mortality in our most recent NZ measles outbreak, which can primarily be attributed to the excellent ICU facilities we have here.

[Katman]

People forget that measles can be an incredibly serious infection, especially in young children.

Except it wasn't viewed as an incredibly serious infection back 50-60 years ago.

In fact they used to hold measles parties to spread the infection around.

Then a vaccine was invented and an industry discovered there was huge amounts of money to be made.

[Paul in NZ]

Except it wasn't viewed as an incredibly serious infection back 50-60 years ago.

In fact they used to hold measles parties to spread the infection around.

Then a vaccine was invented and an industry discovered there was huge amounts of money to be made.

In 1912, measles became a nationally notifiable disease in the United States, requiring U.S. healthcare providers and laboratories to report all diagnosed cases.

In the first decade of reporting, an average of 6,000 measles-related deaths were reported each year.

In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age.

It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 1,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles.

[Katman]

In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age.

It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 1,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles.

Have you bothered to check out the graph that shows the dramatic decrease in deaths from measles over a 30-40 year period prior to the vaccine even being invented?