Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[husaberg]

Whether it was administered correctly or not doesn't make the slightest change to my opinion on mandatory vaccination.

Who said it was mandatory to vaccinate children in Samoa?
But that doesn't stop you trying to gain maximum milage exploiting the situation from what was likely a procedural error than a fault of the vaccine either does it.

[Katman]

Then why did you reference the four deaths in Samoa? surely it wasn't to use ambiguous information to sway opinion in favour of your agenda.

I'll spell it out again in case anyone missed it the previous times I've said it.

I am not 'anti-vaccine'. I believe there are serious concerns surrounding vaccines that people should be questioning but if a parent chooses to vaccinate their child, that is entirely their right. I would never stand in the way of a parent taking whatever steps they believe will best protect their child.

What I will never accept is the idea that people should be forced to impose a medical procedure on their child against their will. (And that includes for the reason that all medical procedures carry a degree of risk of procedural error).

That is a breach of fundamental human rights.

I'm merely using this latest information as a means to convey that opinion.

[Honest Andy]

Yay Kat gave me red rep. That means he knows he's wrong and has tossed his toys and will go away now...

[Katman]

Yay Kat gave me red rep. That means he knows he's wrong and has tossed his toys and will go away now...

Dude, go back and have another read of the post you got it for.

Now I don't know what your beef is with me since I don't remember ever clashing with you over any subject in the past.

But to me, you come across as the standard KB fuckwit who simply likes to jump on the bandwagon of faux outrage.

So get used to the rep or fuck off and find a hobby that isn't me.

[husaberg]

So get used to the rep or fuck off.

You are behaving like a petulent child Steve.
Whilst you can red rep anyone one you like, the fact that you fell inclined to red rep so many different people is rather telling.
Also as you are aware you are not allowed to send abusive messages in the red rep. You are well aware this is a KB rule. If any of the 5 or so seperate people you have red reped with abuse in the last week were to to send these messages to a Mod I would think you would be back in the sin bin again.

[F5 Dave]

Then why did you reference the four deaths in Samoa? surely it wasn't to use ambiguous information to sway opinion in favour of your agenda.

I don't know what his agenda is but I'm pretty sure mine now includes not getting a haircut in Samoa, let alone any medical procedure.

[husaberg]

Here's some homework for you.

In the last two years four children in Samoa have died after being given the MMR vaccine.

How many children in Samoa died of measles in the last two years?

NOTE
What you claim as being a two additional deaths releated to MMR is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
It appears the two children (a brother and sister)shared a undiagnosed extremely rare genetic disorder that effects only 1 in a million children in which they had no effective imune system.
If they had been exposed to measles or mumps or any common diease they would have likely to died regardless. If they grew up in NZ and were diagnosed they would likely have done so in a plastic bubble.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...all-over-again
Also we dont yet know exactly what the cause for the samoan deaths are but its highly likely a procedural error no fault of the vaccine.
Nor is it likely related to the other deaths unless they also share the same rare genetic disorder.

Meanwhile, New Zealand's Ministry of Health has contacted health authorities in Samoa to ask whether any help is required of them in regards to the investigation.
Dr Stewart Jessamine told the Herald the MoH did not know where Samoa sourced its MMR vaccine from, but confirmed it was not supplied from New Zealand.
"New Zealand currently uses a brand of MMR vaccine called Priorix. It's made mostly in France and Belgium and tested there before it's sent to New Zealand.
"It's monitored along the way to make sure it's kept at a constant safe temperature until it's administered to patients.''
Jessamine stressed that the MMR vaccine in New Zealand had an excellent safety profile and had been used without significant problem for several decades.
University of Auckland vaccinologist Dr Helen Petousis-Harris said one death, let alone two, was extremely rare, and there had never been a death associated with the MMR vaccine in New Zealand.
She said although investigations were still continuing into what went wrong, there were two reasons that could have been factors in the deaths.
"One is that there's been an error where the vaccine is prepared for the injection incorrectly and ultimately results in the wrong substance being injected.
"Or there's been some sort of contamination due to the vaccine having been reconstituted and left at a room temperature for a really long period of time."
Petousis-Harris acknowledged that there could now be fears from parents about the safety of vaccines and immunisations.
But she said it was important for people to understand that the vaccine programme was a very safe one in New Zealand.
"The last thing you want is for people to be fearful of something that we know is actually incredibly safe.
"But right now, we have to try and understand what happened and then work out what can be done to ensure it doesn't happen again.
"It's exceptionally rare at the global level and will be taken extremely seriously."

if a parent chooses to vaccinate their child, that is entirely their right. I would never stand in the way of a parent taking whatever steps they believe will best protect their child.
That is a breach of fundamental human rights.

Its a breach of the childrens human rights to deny them access to medical procedures that could save their life stevo.
The child right to life overides the parents right for choice.

University of Auckland medical ethics theorist Monique Jonas says, "In New Zealand, a parental refusal of a blood transfusion or blood products for a child can be overridden if it is considered that the refusal imperils the life or health of the child.Doctors are bound by the principle of best interests – they need to ensure that children's interests are served," says Jonas.
As a final resort, doctors may seek a court order declaring that treatment will be lawful, if parents do not agree with medical advice and the child's best interests will otherwise be compromised.
However, the vaccination dilemma has provided a good framework in which doctors can apply a methodology based around building trust with parents.
"Parents are not legally obliged to vaccinate their children," says Jonas. "An example of the preferred approach in New Zealand is to inform, explain and work with parents, rather than force certain treatment decisions."

I believe there are serious concerns surrounding vaccines that people should be questioning

Note the serious concerns expressed about vaccinations are all based on faked data by Andrew Wakefeild who was trying to get a patent for another vaccine.

There is not a single scientific study that has found an association with MMR vaccine annd Autism. The study below pooled the results from multiple studies in the U.S., U.K., Europe and Japan assessed for any risk in more than one million children.
» Vaccines are not associated with autism: An evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...10X14006367%20

[Banditbandit]

I've already pointed out that back in the 60's measles parties were commonplace, whereby a child with measles invited all their friends around so they could all contract the illness - and in doing so, gain natural (lifetime) immunity.

Then someone discovered vast sums of money could be made from a vaccine.

Wow - the consequences of measles are horrendous - much more of a risk than you believe the risk of vaccination .. up to and including 1 in every thousand cases results in child death ..

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-l...cts-of-measles

[husaberg]

Wow - the consequences of measles are horrendous - much more of a risk than you believe the risk of vaccination .. up to and including 1 in every thousand cases results in child death ..

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-l...cts-of-measles

Not only that even in the developed world

Rates of Measles Severity and Complications in the U.S.*
Hospitalization 1 out of 4 cases
Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
• About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
Measles during pregnancy increases the risk of miscarriage or premature birth
• For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.

US figures pre vaccination scheme

U.S. Measles Burden: Before 1963 Vaccine Development*
 Each year, measles caused an estimated 3 to 4 million cases
• Close to 500,000 cases were reported annually to CDC, resulting in:
48,000 hospitalizations
4,000 cases with encephalitis (brain swelling)
450 to 500 deaths

Since 2000, the annual number of reported measles cases ranged from 37 people in 2004 to 667 people in 2014.
 The last measles death in the United States occurred in 2015.

Two doses of measles vaccine protect 98% of those who catch the virus from becoming ill and one dose protects over 90%. Protection is likely to be lifelong.

Even in NZ

In New Zealand in 1991, seven people with no other conditions died from measles

[Katman]

Wow - the consequences of measles are horrendous

Well they didn't seem to think so back in the 60's. And the fact that they held such 'parties' suggests they didn't even seem to consider isolating the patient as a particularly important issue.

By the 60's the death rate from measles had plummeted - and this was before the vaccine even existed.

[Ocean1]

Well they didn't seem to think so back in the 60's. And the fact that they held such 'parties' suggests they didn't even seem to consider isolating the patient as a particularly important issue.

By the 60's the death rate from measles had plummeted - and this was before the vaccine even existed.

Aye, modern medicine, fuckin wonderful stuff eh?



Fuckwit.

[Katman]

Aye, modern medicine, fuckin wonderful stuff eh?

Don't forget the money.

It's all about the money.

[husaberg]

Well they didn't seem to think so back in the 60's. And the fact that they held such 'parties' suggests they didn't even seem to consider isolating the patient as a particularly important issue.

By the 60's the death rate from measles had plummeted - and this was before the vaccine even existed.

U.S. Measles Burden: Before 1963 Vaccine Development*
 Each year, measles caused an estimated 3 to 4 million cases
• Close to 500,000 cases were reported annually to CDC, resulting in:
48,000 hospitalizations
4,000 cases with encephalitis (brain swelling)
450 to 500 deaths .

Idiot..........

Last time SHatman tried the same arguement relating to the measles rate was droping anyway.

And furthermore, statements like "thousands of dead school children from measles outbreaks" is nothing but ridiculous scare-mongering.

The reality is that dying from measles is an extremely uncommon occurrence these days.

Perhaps ... measles were identified as a virus ... and treated as a dangerous infectious disease (which it then was) and sufferers with the known symptoms ... were kept in isolation. Thus reducing the spread. Only later was the vaccine discovered.

As as a side note ... the measles vaccine is seldom given as an individual vaccine ... and is often/usually given in combination with a mumps and rubella vaccine.

Due to a good vaccination program?

No, due to vastly improved sanitation and nutrition.

(Although the nutrition side could probably be questioned these days).

And it was vastly reduced again. Don't confuse the rate of death, with the rate of death per incident.

I'm not ignoring the incident rate.
I'm addressing the claim that the introduction of the vaccine led to a massive decrease in the number dying from the disease.

The death rate on the graph is per incident. Ie, how many people die out of every thousand cases of measels. So to convert that figure to a population based death rate (the standard measure), you have to take into account the incident rate. Do you understand there is a difference between the death rate per incident, and the actual death rate (population based) from the disease?

[Banditbandit]

Well they didn't seem to think so back in the 60's. And the fact that they held such 'parties' suggests they didn't even seem to consider isolating the patient as a particularly important issue.

By the 60's the death rate from measles had plummeted - and this was before the vaccine even existed.

1963 .. it was created in 1963 ...

In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 1,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles.

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html

[Katman]

1963 .. it was created in 1963....

I know perfectly well when the vaccine was created.

The rate of deaths from measles had been plummeting for 30-40 years before then.

And by the 60's measles was treated that lightly that parties were being organised to share them around.

Then the vaccine came along and someone discovered they could make a fortune by creating hysteria.