Ultrabatt lithium batteries

[FastBikeGear]

I'm interested, and have been since Ed politely told me a few years ago that they are not suitable.
I need something that can handle a continuous trickle drain at sub-zero temps.

So not a starting battery. But just something that has more than 20Ah life to it.
Previous experience with Li based was I ended up with frigid bricks below zero. Usually with 1/2 or less of their juice.

Unlike the Shorai batteries our specific cold weather solution means that very high cranking amps in sub zero degrees are no issue for us. However our lithium LiFePO4 battery solutions are all optimised as starter batteries. It sounds like what you need is more akin to deep storage batteries? It seems your key requirement is amp hours not cranking amps?

For dollar, size & weight per CRANKING AMPS it's pretty hard to beat a lithium battery.

But for dollar per Ah a lead acid battery is still pretty hard to beat.

Feel welcome to call to discuss your needs.

[Dave-]

No. The CCA test is a PbEq rating - it's a marketing answer to a technical question. I am not aware of any Lithium battery company that does testing at -18 degrees Celsius. But the good news is that for most (but not all customers i.e. those down at Scott's Base, etc). It is largely of academic interest only.

What would be of more interest in NZ would be -5 degree PCA tests.

PCA testing is done at at a nominated ambient temperature. I believe it is 20 degrees Celsius. Have seriously thought about how we might perform these tests locally in a large freezer.

Lithium batteries as you are no doubt aware do not perform as well as lead acid batteries at cold temperature. Luckily there is a very simple self heating starting process that works very well and both we and Ultrabatt spec the PCA to ensure good cold weather starting. In NZ cold weather starting has never been an issue for any Ultabatt customer we are aware of.

In addition we also have a specific lithium battery cold weather solution that will work in well below freezing conditions in places such as the Antarctic. Please fell free to contact me for more details on that option.

If you let me know your specific requirements, peak breakaway cranking amps of your starter and continuos cranking amps I can advise you accordingly. We can also take these measurements for your vehicle if required. Alternatively can you advise me what vehicle you need to start? If you have concerns about temperature please let me know the coldest temperature you will be starting your vehicle in?


Liam@fastbikegear.co.nz
09 834 6655

I'll flick you an email Liam, thanks.

[avgas]

Unlike the Shorai batteries our specific cold weather solution means that very high cranking amps in sub zero degrees are no issue for us. However our lithium LiFePO4 battery solutions are all optimised as starter batteries. It sounds like what you need is more akin to deep storage batteries? It seems your key requirement is amp hours not cranking amps?

For dollar, size & weight per CRANKING AMPS it's pretty hard to beat a lithium battery.

But for dollar per Ah a lead acid battery is still pretty hard to beat.

Feel welcome to call to discuss your needs.

Actually for the application if we can reduce size its a huge improvement - and Ah are better for size in Lithium.
As you can imagine hauling deep cycle SLAs up into trees, poles and huts is not entertaining.

I ended up sticking the PCB's next to some Li-Ions and sealed them up to tape. Which is fine for sub-zero.......but warmer could cause boom.

If the battery was isolated......it got cold....it got dead. Li-Ion and Li-Po seems to give me the same result (it was really annoying). But the LiPo was not expensive brands.

But as you can imagine, high quality SLA's don't come cheap, least not with 5 year warrenties. And weigh a ton when you think 10+Ah.

[FastBikeGear]

Actually for the application if we can reduce size its a huge improvement - and Ah are better for size in Lithium.
As you can imagine hauling deep cycle SLAs up into trees, poles and huts is not entertaining.

I ended up sticking the PCB's next to some Li-Ions and sealed them up to tape. Which is fine for sub-zero.......but warmer could cause boom.

If the battery was isolated......it got cold....it got dead. Li-Ion and Li-Po seems to give me the same result (it was really annoying). But the LiPo was not expensive brands.

But as you can imagine, high quality SLA's don't come cheap, least not with 5 year warrenties. And weigh a ton when you think 10+Ah.

Call me O275 985 266

[FastBikeGear]

Guys it is not directly related to the subject of LiFeP04 batteries although we have certainly discovered that a good stable voltage supply helps with the performance of Ignition systems!

And I know that many of the same boffins who are following this thread are also interested in the performance of ignition systems.

The Ignitech programmable ignition units have proven very popular in New Zealand so I thought it was about time we had a discussion thread for them.

I have started a new thread on the Ignitech units here.

I am happy to attempt to answer any technical queries in that thread for any one who has one. My experience is limited to their TCIP4 units for carburetor end vehicles.

We have been importing and distributing the Ignitech TCI-P4 ignition systems in New Zealand for some time and we have gained quite a bit of experience with the unit fited to our Frankencati. The Frankencati set up proved to a really good test bed for learning about the systems as it is also been fitted with our own Dual Spark Plug heads and getting the ignition otimised to work with these proved more of a challenge than expected.

We came to the realisation very early in the pice that the Ignitech supplied manual suffered from English being the writers second language and it also lacked instructions on new featuers that had been added tothe units over the years, etc.
We have been importing and distributing the Ignitech TCI-P4 ignition systems in New Zealand for some time and we have gained quite a bit of experience with the unit fited to our Frankencati. The Frankencati set up proved to a really good test bed for learning about the systems as it is also been fitted with our own Dual Spark Plug heads and getting the ignition otimised to work with these proved more of a challenge than expected.

We came to the realisation very early in the piece that the Ignitech supplied manual suffered from English being the writers second language and it also lacked instructions on new featuers that had been added tothe units over the years, etc.

So I began writing our own manual for the units a couple of years ago and I have been giving this away on request to customers all over the world. Over time and with lots of custmer feed back it's got better and more detailed. I have just finished the biggest rewrite of this that I have done in sometime.

It contains extra detail and clearer explanations than the Ignitech supplied manual which should make understandanding and setting up your unit easier. Sections in navy blue are the sections added/altered by FastBikeGear to the original Ignitech manual.

The manual is focused around setting these units up on Ducati bikes but should be equally valuable to assisting with setting them up on other bikes.

The purpose of creating the FastBikeGear Ignitech manual is to:

1. Improve the readability.
2. Add explanations on how it works (pieced to gather by assumptions, testing, and extra information I have obtained from Ignitech).
3. Add more detail and explanations
4. Document the extra features that the new firmware gives you access to.

I have started a new thread on the Ignitech units here.

[FastBikeGear]

Interesting article clck on link below. The batteries used in Formula One use exactly the same nano-phosphate battery technology used in the Ultrabatt batteries that we supply today.

The nano-phosphate chemistry in the latest LiFePO4 cells used in Ultrabatt batteries incrementally better cold weather performance and enables faster charging times than the earlier generations of LiFePO4 cells.

Although not covered in the article in the link below, we we have very good reason to suggest that some of the teams are already using the next step in battery technology that we hope to have available for mainstream use and purchase late this year.

https://www.highpowermedia.com/blog/3909/chemical-power

[FastBikeGear]

On Thursday we received our first shipment of the upgraded Ultrabatt 'Futura lll' PowerBlades and will commenced shipping out back orders Friday

The new 'Futura lll' version of the Powerblades use the very latest generation Nano-Phosphate cells available from A123 Systems

I have had a chance to have a quick look over them and run some preliminary tests.

...we are impressed.

We had heard a rumour that while they were the same size they would be even lighter again, so the first thing I did was put them on the digital scales. The new PowerBlades are about 25 grams lighter than the old PowerBlades which is not really a big deal but it just shows that incremental improvements are being made on a regular basis.

Ultrabatt don't claim any higher performance numbers for the batteries ...but they do publish charts showing the new cells in these batteries do have significantly better cold weather performance.

Cold weather performance is really the only remaining achillies heel of Lithium starter batteries, so improved cold weather performance is a worthwhile bonus. Every few degrees increase in ambient temperature makes a suprisingly large improvement in the maximum cranking amps the batteries can deliver and the end voltage of the batteries after the test.

I ran a quick 30 second Cranking Amps test on them at 16 degrees Celsius on our carbon pile load tester at an ambient temperature of 16 degrees, and then compared this with Cranking Amps tests made on the previous version of PowerrBlades and another brand of battery that I have in the workshop for bench marking.

Results at 16 degres Celsius were incrementally higher than the same tests made on the previous version of PowerBlades made at 20 degrees celsius.

We also noted that if we ran the test repetitively without recharging the batteries inbetween, the voltage held up better than on any other Lithium battery we have ever tested.

We will be running some more tests on these batteries at various loads and temperatures so that we can get a fuller picture of their performance....but it is apparrent that the cell technology just keeps on improving incrementally every few months.

[bogan]

Are them new ones the same voltage? (obvioously stil 12V rated, but working voltage etc?) the f1 article mentioned something about a lower voltage for nLFP which I had not heard before...

[FastBikeGear]

Are them new ones the same voltage? (obvioously stil 12V rated, but working voltage etc?) the f1 article mentioned something about a lower voltage for nLFP which I had not heard before...

Yes exactly the same nominal resting voltage (13.2) and same charging voltage (14.4-14.6V) as before, less voltage drop under load though.

The way I am reading that article some of the chemistries used by some teams in formula 1 in the past were not LiFeP04, but Lithium cobalt/managanese, etc and had a higher resting voltage (3.7V) per cell but were slower to charge and not as stable as Lithium Phosphate batteries....one of the key reasons all lithium starter batteries sold commercially are lithium phosphate chemistries.

The lithium batteries using nano technology are much faster to charge. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanobatteries.

[FastBikeGear]

The new cold weather MegaBooster battery packs are now available for sale.

These are a development from an earlier prototype shown many months ago here starting a six cylinder 3 liter BMW.

http://youtu.be/7LU3z1mDUrg

As is the norm now, these have an inbuilt cell balancing system to maximize their life span and can be directly charged with your bikes charging system. They do not require a fancy smart charger, etc. These are a truly plug in and forget units. They will maintain there full cranking capacity in extremely cold conditions (rated for use to -18 degrees Celsius) and they will withstand repeated 100% discharge cycles.

More detailed information on these new battery packs is now on our web site here:

http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz/index....oducts_id=6238

Current price on these is $150

For further information please contact FastBikeGear directly as I rarely get a chance these days to correspond via kiwibiker.

[Dave-]

Check out what showed up in the lab today!

I'm working on the Formula SAE car at Canterbury University. We needed a battery that was physically small, lightweight that still packed the punch we needed to kick over our wee Husky 450. We also have quite a lot of load in the form of data acquisition and a few other secrets (all will be revealed) so we needed a battery that had good capacity too.

I weighed up the Ultrabatt against the Shorai and found the Ultrabatts had the highest capacity and cranking current for their mass and volume. The 2013 team used Shorai, I was a bit disappointed that it has started causing problems after roughly 1 year (detuned 2008 R6 motor, used like a race bike).

So I went with Ultrabatt. When we got these in today I was really impressed with the build quality, everything snaps together really nice and each blade comes with enough bits to fit it to another blade (I have excess as you can imagine!) Liam from fastbikegear helped us get in contact with Ultrabatt and organise sponsorship.

I'll keep you guys updated with any tid-bits, we should be on a rolling chassis by the end of the week. We have a running engine in our dyno rig, but running engine in the car is difficult as there is quite a comprehensive tuning phase to go through (that should be a hint that this is no ordinary husky 450).



(graphs for those who missed them)

[FastBikeGear]

Click on link below for video of an Ultrabatt lithium battery starting a V8 race car.

Once we had done the test the owner drove off with it and a few more goodies for his car.

His old 12 kg lead acid battery was just 480 CCA.

The 2 kg replacement Ultrabatt a battery was 600 PCA...and of course we can easily supply a 5000 PCA battery if anyone wants to start a larger 24 cylinder diesel truck.

http://youtu.be/A8DDbCZMG7A

[FastBikeGear]

Incredible to think that each of these small brown boxes hold 50 Ultrabatt lithium batteries! In the old days of gel batteries we would have needed a fork lift and a couple of hours to move 500 batteries into the store room. Now A little weed like me can easily lift and carry a box of 50 batteries to the store room at a time. But it's been over an hour since I last had a cup of coffee....Julie I have a job for you....

[FastBikeGear]

Original battery 10Kg, replacement lithium battery 1.6Kg. This BMW had a monster 10kg 385 CCA battery in it! After measuring the break away starting amps at 130A and continuous cranking amps at 80A I determined this bike could easily be started by a battery consisting of just three Ultrabatt PowerBlades, but given this particulars bike's intended use (being shipped around the world to do epic intrepid tours in god forsaken lands) and previous history of eating batteries we determined that a bit of overkill might not be a bad thing and opted to add a fourth PowerBlade. Bike was on display in cafe and hadn't been started for many months (still had old fuel in it,) but credit to the character of this bike, it started straight up!

[FastBikeGear]

Video of an Ultrabatt lithium battery starting one of our customers V8 cars.

This battery was less than 1/6th of the weight of the battery it replaced.

http://youtu.be/A8DDbCZMG7A