Only blue gang patches and vests allowed. And shit

[Akzle]

yerp

it seems only government appointed thugs are acceptable because "the other gangs intimidate people to enforce their ideology"

[unstuck]

[Ulsterkiwi]

Ohhhhh internet forum trolling.....why do I always give in........

I dont want an argument, robust debate? bring it on.....

Assuming you are referring to the police, is their role not to enforce the laws of the land which are enacted by Parliament? That being a democratically elected body which every citizen over the age of 18 is entitled to vote for. Whether they choose to exercise that right or not is up to them. In a democratic system therefore, the police enforce laws supported by the majority, not an ideology. If you dont like the laws, change your representation.
The gangs are not accountable to the people and the perception is they do not answer to the law. While that's an ideology I have a difficulty with, I would defend the right of anyone to have that ideology and for those individuals to be protected by the same laws as anyone else.
THere is always going to be some will for places connected to government to set the standard of behaviour etc, it doesnt always happen but I do get what they are trying to do. The unfortunate thing is the lack of consistency when choosing when to set the standard and when to bend them.

I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people (they are just people after all) is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived or does the remainder of non-gang society just have to suck it up and not have their fears or concerns addressed?

[Grizzo]

Official hooligans they be.

[sinfull]

I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people (they are just people after all) is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived or does the remainder of non-gang society just have to suck it up and not have their fears or concerns addressed?

I have a question, which guy, who may or may not come and stand next to my daughter, while she's standing at say a bus stop, is the gang member who has to rape to earn his patch and which is not ?

[Ulsterkiwi]

I have a question, which guy, who may or may not come and stand next to my daughter, while she's standing at say a bus stop, is the gang member who has to rape to earn his patch and which is not ?

which is exaclty the kind of fear I was meaning, we are told this is what is required for people to get into gangs, yet the gangs say thats bull and they arent really bad and the government and the police are out to get them and its not fair and so on and so on......

My question rephrased would be "what are the gangs going to do to change how they are perceived given they are not perceived in a good way?"

[Scuba_Steve]

Ohhhhh internet forum trolling.....why do I always give in........

I dont want an argument, robust debate? bring it on.....

Assuming you are referring to the police, is their role not to enforce the laws of the land which are enacted by Parliament? That being a democratically elected body which every citizen over the age of 18 is entitled to vote for. Whether they choose to exercise that right or not is up to them. In a democratic system therefore, the police enforce laws supported by the majority, not an ideology. If you dont like the laws, change your representation.

The police day in day out break ours laws especially the ones written specifically written to protect "the people" from extortion, corruption & scams perpetrated by this gang & their (also illegal) 'masters', so they break not only the letter but also the spirt/purpose of the law.

The gangs are not accountable to the people and the perception is they do not answer to the law.

The police gang is supposed to be answerable to 'the people' which is why the Govt want's this GSCB bill so they have an oppression tool not answerable to 'the people'

I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people (they are just people after all) is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived or does the remainder of non-gang society just have to suck it up and not have their fears or concerns addressed?

Yea, if we're talking the Police gang they could stop breaking the law, scamming & extorting money, do their job & stop being the Govts bitch.
Gangs like Mongrel mob, Headhunters, Hells angels, cripples, bloodz etc could stop their stupid wanky initiation rituals only hassle other gangs rather than the public & stop being pussys with guns & go back to hand to hand like real men

[Ulsterkiwi]

The police day in day out break ours laws especially the ones written specifically written to protect "the people" from extortion, corruption & scams perpetrated by this gang & their (also illegal) 'masters', so they break not only the letter but also the spirt/purpose of the law.




The police gang is supposed to be answerable to 'the people' which is why the Govt want's this GSCB bill so they have an oppression tool not answerable to 'the people'



Yea, if we're talking the Police gang they could stop breaking the law, scamming & extorting money, do their job & stop being the Govts bitch.
Gangs like Mongrel mob, Headhunters, Hells angels, cripples, bloodz etc could stop their stupid wanky initiation rituals only hassle other gangs rather than the public & stop being pussys with guns & go back to hand to hand like real men

Ok, I consider myself an ordinary person, I dont know everything. I am curious, what extortion is the police engaged in? I dont mean the bad apples which will appear in every facet of society and are usually individuals or small groups of individuals. Are you saying there is systemic extortion, corruption and scams perpetrated by the police force in NZ that I, as an ordinary citizen, am a target of? Seriously, are we going to have speeding cameras as an example of state extortion? High Rego costs? Taxes?

I find it really hard to believe that this or any government in NZ or the police have any desire to oppress anyone. I grew up in a place where holding the "wrong" political beliefs meant you could disappear never to be seen again or be shot or blown up on the way to work. I find it amazing when those in my adopted country consider the NZ state and its organisations in any way oppressive. It is only the freedom we enjoy here that allows us the cushion of such thinking.

[sinfull]

which is exaclty the kind of fear I was meaning, we are told this is what is required for people to get into gangs, yet the gangs say thats bull and they arent really bad and the government and the police are out to get them and its not fair and so on and so on......

My question rephrased would be "what are the gangs going to do to change how they are perceived given they are not perceived in a good way?"

I have seen a number of changes over the last 20 to 30 yrs and many many of the clubs are not running roughshod over ppl any more, bike theft in most of the 1 % MC clubs that are left, is frowned apon, intimidation doesn't happen often, so what you say about the general publics perception is in the most part, are remnants of days when it was cool to look bad !

But there is still an element out there, who revel in creating fear in joe citizen, who's patch must be earnt and can be earnt quicker by performing criminal acts such as rape etc, rather than time in the saddle earning the respect of other club members !

Now i'm not saying 1% aren't into any criminal activity, there will always be the drug trade happening, no matter what bylaws are put in place and yes, gangs/clubs whatever they're called have members who are involved !

What i am saying is that i can see a public hysteria happening, (just because patch members aint wearing the patch, there are still some who will continue to intimidate/rape etc but walking down the road you won't know who they are) am i to tell my daughter it's ok babe, you're safe now ? Or should i tell her certain gangs who still persist with this sort of initiation would be predominantly Maori and more than likely wearing something red ?

Can you see where i'm going with this ?

[Ulsterkiwi]

I have seen a number of changes over the last 20 to 30 yrs and many many of the clubs are not running roughshod over ppl any more, bike theft in most of the 1 % MC clubs that are left, is frowned apon, intimidation doesn't happen often, so what you say about the general publics perception is in the most part, are remnants of days when it was cool to look bad !

But there is still an element out there, who revel in creating fear in joe citizen, who's patch must be earnt and can be earnt quicker by performing criminal acts such as rape etc, rather than time in the saddle earning the respect of other club members !

Now i'm not saying 1% aren't into any criminal activity, there will always be the drug trade happening, no matter what bylaws are put in place and yes, gangs/clubs whatever they're called have members who are involved !

What i am saying is that i can see a public hysteria happening, (just because patch members aint wearing the patch, there are still some who will continue to intimidate/rape etc but walking down the road you won't know who they are) am i to tell my daughter it's ok babe, you're safe now ? Or should i tell her certain gangs who still persist with this sort of initiation would be predominantly Maori and more than likely wearing something red ?

Can you see where i'm going with this ?

absolutely!

[sinfull]

It is only the freedom we enjoy here that allows us the cushion of such thinking.

Ok so this thread is about the police , but i aint going to enter a debate about the right or wrongs of police !
But the above statement i feel is something that is being taken from us little by little !

And i think the new bylaw is wrong !

[bogan]

Slow tubes out your way azkel? Didn't this shit happen years ago...

[Ulsterkiwi]

Ok so this thread is about the police , but i aint going to enter a debate about the right or wrongs of police !
But the above statement i feel is something that is being taken from us little by little !

And i think the new bylaw is wrong !

I hear you. Interestingly, I didnt say the bylaw was right, I said I saw what they were trying to do. I think however its ill considered as it merely highlights other inconsistencies, is glossing over the social and legal problems with the gangs and further alienates a group of people who as you said seem to enjoy being the bad boys of society (in part at least!)

Are freedoms being eroded? I have to acknowledge I have only been here for 6 years so relatively speaking my historical context is limited. HOWEVER, New Zealand is still by any measure a free society with low levels of corruption. That doesnt mean things can't be done better!

[jasonu]

I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people (they are just people after all) is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived...?

The answer is no. Outlaw the lot of them.

[buggerit]

I think patches are a good idea, especially in low light situations