David Shearer quits

[Brian d marge]

So, who held a gun to head and made us join?
The fact is simple - we're a small country (albiet one that pucjes above our weight on the world stage) and if we want to get ahead, we have to make compromises (like trading with China).

As for quacking, do you recall what NZ was like before restructuring?
Google that, and then tell us we'd be better off with Muldoonist economics.

pucjes ?? by that do we mean punches??

Anyway ,I was actually in the middle of doing that , p'haps you could help? Think big, was ( I think) funded through public debt. taxes etc I cannot find any information as to where the loans came from

As ( Brian ) Easton said , if "think big" happened a few years later yes it may have had a chance , ( not a fact and not my opinion )
Considering the outside economic pressure on Muldoon , Overall , Im going to say YES , we would have been better off if that " New Zealand socialist style " had continued

its when the followers of Hayek , and their Chicago plans , THATS the point when NZ went south.....Chicago thats in America that is

Stephen

before you start yes , I was around at that time , car-less days etc , I had a ford anglebox

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Muldoon

On a lighter note;
heres a Quote from Hayek ( have you read his book ? I doubt it )

"Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded."

[oldrider]

As for quacking, do you recall what NZ was like before restructuring?
Google that, and then tell us we'd be better off with Muldoonist economics.

Muldoon was a control freak and the worst socialist leader that New Zealand has ever had, his SMP subsidy (supplementary minimum price) turned all our farmers into beneficiaries subsidised by the general taxpayers!

Labour and National swapped roles with each other (not that their loyal voters ever knew it) for a few years and after Labours then "right wing" policies lifted the country out of the poop they swapped back and now they are back where they were before!

Most of the electorate in NZ never knew the difference anyway and just carried on voting with their arseholes as always!

[Brian d marge]

Muldoon was a control freak and the worst socialist leader that New Zealand has ever had, his SMP subsidy (supplementary minimum price) turned all our farmers into beneficiaries subsidised by the general taxpayers!

Labour and National swapped roles with each other (not that their loyal voters ever knew it) for a few years and after Labours then "right wing" policies lifted the country out of the poop they swapped back and now they are back where they were before!

Most of the electorate in NZ never knew the difference anyway and just carried on voting with their arseholes as always!

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/Singleton.NZ

Are we better off now , not from the indicators I look at.

Snip;
The New Zealand economy has recently been perceived as successful. However, the generally positive outlook includes some challenges. New Zealand income levels, which used to be above much of Western Europe prior to the deep crisis of the 1970s, have never recovered in relative terms. For instance, the New Zealand GDP per capita is less than that of Spain and about 60% that of the United States. Income inequality has increased greatly, implying that significant portions of the population have quite modest incomes. Further, New Zealand has a very large current account deficit of 8–9% of GDP. Despite this, its public debt stands at 33.7% (2011 est.)^[25] of the total GDP, which is small compared to many developed nations. However, between 1984 and 2006, net foreign debt increased 11-fold, to NZ$182 billion, NZ$45,000 for each person.^[13]
The combination of a modest public debt and a large net foreign debt reflects that most of the net foreign debt is held by the private sector. At 31 June 2012, gross foreign debt was NZ$256.4 billion, or 125.3% of GDP.^[26] At 31 March 2012, net foreign debt was NZ$141.65 billion or 104.4% of GDP.^[27]
New Zealand's persistent current-account deficits have two main causes. The first is that earnings from agricultural exports and tourism have failed to cover the imports of advanced manufactured goods and other imports (such as imported fuels) required to sustain the New Zealand economy. Secondly, there has been an investment income imbalance or net outflow for debt-servicing of external loans. The proportion of the current account deficit that is attributable to the investment income imbalance (a net outflow to the Australian-owned banking sector) grew from one third in 1997 to roughly 70% in 2008.


Well I was looking up something else ,

IF the measure of a govenment is to " protect and serve " the people then its measurement is surely how it " protects and serves " the weakest.

Even if Muldoon was a control freak etc he at least had an ear or the ones at the bottom. So with that , I present to the waiting world ,,,,, JOHN KEY ta daaaaaa

Stephen

Stephen

[oldrider]

Just read my signature and ask yourself the question ... Are we there yet?

[Oscar]

Just read my signature and ask yourself the question ... Are we there yet?

So who is holding the gun to your head?

[imdying]

I still have to live with the Government. Every year this white male keeps his mouth shut, does his job, pays his taxes, doesn't complain. The Government gets what they want out of me, and I don't get fucked even more than I am. But it saddens me that I will never see an end to this pig. Too many people think this pig is a good thing. Too many think it talks to spiders and sniffs flowers.

Well, that was depressing, because it's true.

[mashman]

Just read my signature and ask yourself the question ... Are we there yet?

I'd remove the "Are we there yet?" bit, coz that's a given, and replace it with something else, like, "How do you think it'll end?"

So who is holding the gun to your head?

The banks

[oldrider]

So who is holding the gun to your head?

Governments, central, local and all other manner of tax extorting thieves!

Personally I am debt free but they are not whether I vote for them or not, like every other citizen we are accountable for their excesses. There is no escape!

[Ocean1]

You and people like you have ruined NZ

how's that rego increase ? Do anything about it ,,,, no probably not ,,,

But you know me so well, Stephen, you tell me what I did about it,

ha???

Yes, this. If you know me well enough to attribute to me some mysterious political motivation that’s ruined NZ you’d presumably have to know me pretty well. Fuck knows what relevance a rego increase has to the ruination of the country but you obviously thought it was an important enough link to highlight it.

So, you know me well, well enough to blame me for the ruin of NZ, (lets just gloss over the fact that NZ rates better in almost every quality-of-life indicator than at any time in it's history, better than most of the rest of the western world, and stunningly better than every other nation not associated with those nasty American bankers you keep blaming), but not well enough to say what you’d expect would be my response to that rego increase.

Wana give it a proper try now? Or do you in fact know nowhere near enough to shoot your mouth off on the topic. Again.


Ah gwarn, I’ll even take a semi accurate label of my political motivations.




Anything?

[Oscar]

The banks

So you HAVE to borrow money from the banks?
For someone that has so much to say about the monetary system, you're pretty clueless about the subject.

[Oscar]

Governments, central, local and all other manner of tax extorting thieves!

Personally I am debt free but they are not whether I vote for them or not, like every other citizen we are accountable for their excesses. There is no escape!

Yes there is.
Go to Somalia.
No taxes there (if you can run fast and use an AK47).

[Oscar]

Yes, this. If you know me well enough to attribute to me some mysterious political motivation that’s ruined NZ you’d presumably have to know me pretty well. Fuck knows what relevance a rego increase has to the ruination of the country but you obviously thought it was an important enough link to highlight it.

So, you know me well, well enough to blame me for the ruin of NZ, (lets just gloss over the fact that NZ rates better in almost every quality-of-life indicator than at any time in it's history, better than most of the rest of the western world, and stunningly better than every other nation not associated with those nasty American bankers you keep blaming), but not well enough to say what you’d expect would be my response to that rego increase.

Wana give it a proper try now? Or do you in fact know nowhere near enough to shoot your mouth off on the topic. Again.


Ah gwarn, I’ll even take a semi accurate label of my political motivations.




Anything?

So it was you!
I always wondered who ruined this country.
My Dad says it was Keith Holyoake, my first boss said the Unions, and the guy at the pub said the Chinese.
But it was you all along.
You preeeck.

[ellipsis]

"WE" taxpayers footing bill Leadership charade! WTF?

...after all these years you still ask the same old question!...it was the taxpayer that paid for the games at the Circus Maximus, kept the Roman despots in power...why would they change a tried and true system...

[mashman]

So you HAVE to borrow money from the banks?
For someone that has so much to say about the monetary system, you're pretty clueless about the subject.

Yes. Where else does money come from?

[Oscar]

Yes. Where else does money come from?

The question was about debt.
Do you think the banks are the only source of credit?