VTR-250 Camchain issues

[nudemetalz]

Greetings,

I've just purchased a VTR-250 (American-spec VT-250FG).
Great wee bike apart from the cam-chain rattle that comes and goes.
It seems that idling it'll rattle and then go away.
From about 5000rpm upwards it seems to be okay too, like under load.

What is the setup of the tensioners on these ? I assume they're hydraulic. I've changed the oil thinking that it may help but not.
Bike's done approx 50000kms.
They need replacing perhaps ?

I thought it may have been the chains but they seem okay when the tensioners are actually tensioning.

Any help is appreciated

Cheers
Chris

[vifferman]

Answer: Honda is crap at making decent camchain tensioners. I've had 7 Hondas, and only three didn't rattle: one was a 2-smoke, and the other two had gear-driven cams.

Best answer is to try to replace the tensioner with an aftermarket manual one, or convert the automatic one to a manual one by ripping the middle out of it and putting a bolt with locknut in its place.

[nudemetalz]

Thanks for the quick answer.

The manual ones seems to work, my old XL was great, just undo the locknut, listen for the rattle disappear and then do up the locknut again.

I'll investigate fixing/replacing the tensioners.
I've heard a theory that when the engine decelerates and the chain load is at it's tightest, the tensioner slide pulls back and when the engine accelerates, the slide sticks and doesn't spring back allowing the chain to slacken and rattle.

Are aftermarket ones available for VT's ?

Cheers
Chris

[onearmedbandit]

The VT's are known for terrible cam-chain tensioners. Has been a while since I worked in a Honda Stealership but I remember a few of them being written off due to this sort of problem IE can be very expensive to fix. Hopefully things have changed. Best of luck.

[nudemetalz]

Thanks,

An indication I've had is that the front and rear ones are different, also that they're going to cost around $300 each. Then there's the hassle of trying to install them !!

Hmm,...

Cheers
Chris

[vifferman]

I'll investigate fixing/replacing the tensioners.
I've heard a theory that when the engine decelerates and the chain load is at it's tightest, the tensioner slide pulls back and when the engine accelerates, the slide sticks and doesn't spring back allowing the chain to slacken and rattle.

I dunno 'bout the 250s, but the 1000s have problems with the tensioner springs breaking which is thought to be exacerbated by excessive engine breaking and/or idling the engine while on the sidestand. The spring is a coiled one (like a clock spring) that gradually unwinds as the camchain stretches (or the sliders wear). The long chain throw on the VTR1000 means that there is potentially quite a lot of camchain movement, which causes a lot of stress on the spring. While the spring and tensioner mechanism is self-ratcheting, this presumes the spring is intact; once it breaks, the tensioner arm can retract enough to let the camchain jump the camshaft sprocket, then Mr Piston and the Valve twins have a "catastrophic interference episode".

Whether you can get an aftermarket one depends on whether anything else fits, as I doubt that performance ones were made for the VT250. I wouldn't think it would be a hard job though for a decent mechanic or engineer to convert the Honda one to one with a locknut.

Are you sure it's definitely camchain clatter, and not coming from the head? VT250s are apparently prone to problems in the head (as am I) through lack of maintenance.

[vifferman]

An indication I've had is that the front and rear ones are different, also that they're going to cost around $300 each. Then there's the hassle of trying to install them !!

If installation is anything like the VTR1000, it's not hard at all (although the 1000 probably had more room to manouevre). I installed some APE ones without having to remove anything apart from the old tensioners and the inspection cover over the flywheel (to get the valve timing right). I bought the two APE tensioners and a new throttle position sensor for less than $300, airfreighted from the UK. APE tensioners are $US50 each, or $NZ145 through the NZ agent for APE.
Honda likes to keep parts common to more than one model, so it may well be that someone with a bit of savvy can hook you up with something else that's cheaper. With luck, you may find that (f'rinstance) CBR600 tensioners are the same. The ones for the VTR1000 were actually labelled as being from some other bike (can't remember which model). And apparently, Kawasaki CCTs also fit.

[nudemetalz]

Thanks Vifferman for sharing that wealth of knowledge.

Pretty sure it's not the head as the noise comes and goes. If it was a loose tappet or such it would be pretty constant wouldn't it.
The performance is not lackluster, revs out very cleanly and mechanically quietly (well make's only the noises it should).
I've had a VT250FE before this definitely feels faster than that, so that's why I think it's the noise is nothing performance related.

Cheers

[vifferman]

Thanks Vifferman for sharing that wealth of knowledge.

It's easy - I just make it up.

[nudemetalz]

ha ha,...unfortunately what you says makes sense...

Cheers

[Devil]

Recently had the cam chain and tensioner replaced on my kwakasucky. Bout $350 for chain, tensioner and labour.
Chain was about $110.

Dunno what the honda ones look like, but the kwaka one's plunger and bearing started wearing. THe plunger would get pitted by the bearing sticking...consequently the bearings would flatten. When they travelled up the plunger, the'd get stuck at the top, where the groove is that lets you put the screw in to put the thing back together.

So effectively the hoodacky on the pole gets borked and the wanger gets caught leaving the chain dangly.

Edit: temporary fix for me was removing it, cleaning it up, making sure it was all lubed ok and putting it back in. Worked for a while, but got worse and worse.

[vifferman]

ha ha,...unfortunately what you says makes sense...

Da-yamm! It's a freakin' wonder! You must've been lucky to catch me while the neurons were firing instead of fizzing and spluttering...

[vifferman]

So effectively the hoodacky on the pole gets borked and the wanger gets caught leaving the chain dangly.

Brilliant summary, Dude!

[Sniper]

I thought so too. Hahaha, bling for you

[nudemetalz]

I believe the VT has way too many hoodackys and wangers than a 250 really should have, but then that's Honda's philosophy on building a motor.

But I had a great laugh at Devil's description too !!!

To Vifferman: Surely the Neurons fire a lot smoother with Gear-Cam Drive these days !!